I think with this week turning the corner for Tanner McGuire would be a good time to move to a different thread. PRAISE GOD for the good news & the awesome miracles God has done just in the last week.Here is the latest:I heard it for myselfBy Mark McGuire — 3 hours agoYes its a miracle. Today we went to Tanners room and watched him and had small talk with Tanner this morning. We could tell that Tanner was kind of bummed out. It was not related to the brain injury but it was something, as we came to find out, someone had said. When one of the doctor’s walked by this morning he asked the nurse, Who is this? The nurse replied this is Tanner the patient you gave up on! He replied I thought he wouldn’t make it, he was in bad shape. They say the nurse who has been one who has literally fought for my son dug into the doctor pretty good. Needless to say this floored us after we had heard it and I thank God he was not our surgeon. He just needs to understand it ain’t all up to him. There is a Physician more capable than him! We have had the best of the best from the Surgeons who did not give up, the nurses who came in on there days off, the respiratory therapist coming in pulling extra time to the lady who cleans his room. Even the ambassador’s who sit in the ICU waiting room are wearing there PRAY FOR TANNER BRACELETS. Wow, now that is what you call God’s Favor. Patti gave Tanner a little pep talk and explained that he had been really sick and I think it sunk in on Tanner today.As the day went on we came back to visit with Tanner for the 2pm – 5pm visitation. Wow folks if you thought I was excited yesterday I am fixing to floor you today. Today is day 31, since this incident happened. We have been on one crazy un-explainable, tormented journey, our family totally disrupted. One child in the hospital, one staying with our friends and one staying with my parents, loss of income to the thoughts of possibly having to sale our house There are moments that I don’t even have words to explain the emotions that we have experienced. If you have not been down this road you just can’t understand, nothing personal but you just can’t. Well, today the Respiratory Therapist came in to the room, Trauma room 2. In the room was God, Patrice, My Sister, My Niece Hannah and myself. Also in the room was every nurse who was not helping another patient in the TICU standing in the room or at the door. The therapist placed what is called a one way valve on Tanners trach. This allows air to be pushed into the lungs but requires the patient to exhale through the nose or mouth. At first Tanner coughed and made a sound. Wow we have a voice now. The therapist looks at Tanner and per my request, asked him to tell his mother I love you. Yeap after 31 days and all of the stress, moments on the knees, sleepless nights, doctors giving up, emotions I can’t explain there that moment was. In Tanners voice, the words, I Love You Mom were spoken. Then it was I love you dad. The room erupted in cheer, tears, and happy dances. Then one of the nurses asked what year is it Tanner? Tanner replied 2015! What month is it Tanner? September, October, November, December. Wow what a moment. I can’t explain to you the elation of that moment. Then what made me the proudest was Tanner. The Resp. Therapist asked him if there was anything else he wanted to tell us and in his reply was No Sir. After all this boy has been through and for him to have the ability to reply with such a proper reply. Wow Tanner you are the man. This wore Tanner out and he has not really slept since he awoke from the induced coma.Tonight when it was time to visit with Tanner, Lee University Pastor, J Harper and Patrice went up to see Tanner. He was resting and the nurse had given him some meds to help him sleep. He woke up looked at his mother, smiled and mouthed hi mom. When I went up after Pastor Harper, Tanner had already fallen back asleep. He looked so peaceful while he was sleeping. Sleep well my son you deserve it, God has something for you to do. As Patti and I walked the walk from the ICU waiting room back to the RMH, we were talking. I had not said anything but I have noticed since the beginning that it always seems peaceful in Tanners room. I had chalked it up to being so wired up myself and trying to get everything and take in everything that in his room it was just quite. Well tonight Patti brought it up. She asked me if I had noticed anything about Tanners room. Well as usual I got the first 5 answers wrong, its that husband thing. Then Patti asked do you feel how peaceful it is in there? I looked at Patti and I said yes I have noticed it for a while. Then Patti replied to me saying it is though angels are in his room. People I tell you God is all over this. With your prayers, our prayers, yours/our faith, steadfastness and determination then there are all of the prayer clothes in his room. Yes I believe that God has dispatched angels into Tanners room and I believe that God is going to do something that none of us have seen, through Tanners life. You see He is not suppose to be able to open his eyes, not suppose to be able to comprehend who everyone is, where he is at and the list goes on. But God! That really just sums it up. What more can I say other than But God! As you begin your Sunday and you enter into your church, regardless of your denomination, I challenge you to walk in with your arms raised praising God. Praise him for Tanner if you have nothing to praise for. You have seen and absolute miracle happening here. Rejoice church Rejoice! I will be watching SCCOG on Live Stream and I am asking each of you who read this who attend church with us and all over the world, Lets Praise Our God who is alive, and reigns and is still performing miracles. It’s not about who, what, when, where or why! It is solely Whose we are. We are children of an Almighty God! People I know this one is long but if you could just be here and see what I have seen over the past 31 days you too would be praising God and lifting His name up. Thank you Jesus Thank You. I will enter His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with Praise. Try it people Try it. I believe that God will heal you, touch you, give you that what you are needing. People God is working on me if not anyone else. Praise God. I am going to land this plane tonight because, trust me I could go on. PRAISE GOD________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
There is no reason to think they for religious or cultural reasons disagreed with Paul’s exhortation to the Ephesians (where they also sojourned):
“Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.”
Ephesians 5:22 ASV
See my comments above. I understand verse 22 and 23 as a continuation of verse 21 – “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” and within the context of the whole chapter and letter. I think it’s also important to realize that Paul was addressing a particular issue with a particular community (Ephesus – a sexualized society in which Women exercised authority through their sexuality) and using it as an opportunity to create a metaphor for Christ and the church. So, I think we should be careful not to draw hard lines from the Ephesians 5 passage alone. We have to consider it with the counsel of the whole scriptures.
I have also done academic study on this like you obviously have done in the context of Christians for Biblical Equality etc but I think it is eisegesis based on preconceived assumptions and desires to be like the western world –
Colossians has essentially the same exhortation as does Peters epistle (Rome, Jews, Galatia, Bithyniac etc.) where Diana worship or temple prostitution cannot be said to be the cause – it is pretty standard fare – nothing peculiar is presented – the burden to say that the submit passages don’t mean submit is on the person who proposes a hidden or non obvious meaning
If you don’t want to submit to husband don’t get married is the thought – and if wives don’t submit to husbands – then husbands wouldn’t submit to Jesus and Jesus wouldn’t submit to father
I just studied it, period – because I wanted to understand why some passages seem so contradictory and because I wanted to know the heart of God on this since I am a woman and I desire to be pleasing to Him in every way that I can. I have come down on both sides of this before and have practiced both with my husband. We are both under much less stress with an egalitarian approach. We submit to one another according to our gifts, abilities and callings. I do all I can to show him respect and he does all he can to show me love. That pattern is how men and women typically feel most valued…not always – but typically. I see the submit message loud and clear but I see it applied to both partners within the marriage. We tend to think of it as preferring one another. Your last comment completely eludes me. I do not see the logic there at all. How would a wife’s failure to submit to her husband prevent a husband from submitting to Christ or prevent Christ from submitting to the Father? These things are not dependent on the other. We are joint heirs with Jesus and in submission to the Father. Jesus simply showed us how to do it. As in the early church, an educated husband might show his uneducated wife how to do it by washing her with the water of the word.
Thank you ErlangerBy Mark McGuire — 6 hours agoTonight I just wanted to take a moment to reflect. On August 4, 2015 we received that call that no parent wants to get. When we arrived at Erlanger we were greeted by the Chaplain that was on duty that night. Finally we were allowed to see Tanner and we were shocked by what we saw. His head was wrapped, his leg was broken and the only thing you could see was his eye brows and his closed eyes. They explained to us that the prognosis did not look good, they explained at best he would probably have problems but they were not sure. They prepared us for the worst. As our journey continued on they moved us to the TICU at Erlanger. I remember what the nurse told me, We can’t prevent what damage has already been done we can only prevent further damage from happening. Wow we were definitely in shock. Our healthy 19 year old son was laying there hanging between life and death. We called out for prayer because after the second day Patti and I realized that this was going to be more than just a simple stint in the hospital. As we called for prayer, You the church (at least that is what I call you) began to pray and seek God along with us. My Aunt Devonna flew in to help and stay with Patti when I could not. Over the days and weeks we began to see something take place. I was noticing the nurses were fighting for Tanner. Patti is a nurse and I can tell you from first hand experience, they are a special type of person. If you know a person who is a nurse give them a hug because they see a lot of stuff and it isn’t just a runny nose or a cold. Each one of the nurses began to take an interest in the day to day dealings with Tanner. When one of the nurses told us the level of treatment they gave Tanner it was amazing. One day this nurse came in and they were keeping Tanner at 93 degrees and two days later they had him on a new drug to keep him in a comma. They explained to Patti and I that this was the most aggressive treatment that had been given to a patient with the type of injury Tanner had. Then they told us that it was good to have Tanner in the TICU not because of the accident but they never see people recover so quickly. This specific nurse made the comment if not for anyone else but me, I needed to see it. Then we were told today about the staff meeting they have every day at Erlanger. Tanner was mentioned and the one nurse that brought Tanners name up explained in the meeting, Tanner is why we do what we do! It was explained to me that she said there was not a dry eye in the room after she made that statement. Well from that first day to today, here we are in Atlanta getting ready for the next leg of the journey. Patti went with Tanner in the ambulance and I have rarely seen her with such a smile on her face. Rispah had received her reward. Then there was my dad. He was so giddy it was funny to watch. As for me I was MR. Calm, cool and collective… Yea right, I was so happy that my boy that some had given upon was leaving the TICU, not with his eyes closed or even not knowing who he was. Instead Tanner left the TICU, knowing who he is, his age, who his friends are, his parents are, cognizant of his surroundings. What a God we serve. Well Patti and Tanner arrived at Shepherd in Atlanta and not far behind them was dad, he wanted to see where it was at. Patti got signed in and got things set up. Patti got the apartment room and what a room. Fifth floor, with a view of the Atlanta skyline, God thing again. Here is how God works, Tanner is recovering in the ICU at Shepherds, will probably be off the vent by Monday, pneumonia seems to be cleared up, and I have a room in a building that I can see the sun rise and sit. Now that is a God thing right there. When Jocelyn and I arrived in ATL we went in to see Tanner and there he was watching a video on Netflix and was using his own hand to start, reset and stop the video. Folks it is just a matter of time before Tanner is fully recovered. They said it probably would not happen but they did not expect God to step in, show up and show out. Thank you church for all you have done, both spiritually and blessing us, we have just absolutely been blessed beyond measure. Finally in closing, let’s pray specifically that Tanner will be able to finally get rid of the vent and physically he will benefit 100% from the training here. I also want to say Thank you to all of the nurses, respiratory therapist, cleaning crew and the doctors that helped Tanner on this journey. Erlanger TICU team YOU ARE THE BEST! I could not have asked for better treatment that what we received from you guys and I promise when we are finished here and we return, Tanner, Patti and I will be by to see you. You each have a special place in our heart and when you have one of those days just remember we love you and appreciate each of you. I will be praying for you Hillary that your hip will be healed in the name of Jesus. Take Care and I will update you tomorrow. Be blessed________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Yay! This is awesome. I want to learn more about Lucy Farrow.
Great conversation on women in ministry. So grateful for everyone who took the time to contribute and express their Biblical conviction
David Lewayne Porter Actually, I had read all of your posts in their entirety, but I went and re read them just now…
I can see how we weren’t really communicating as well as we could have been.
I guess you aren’t nearly as strict as I thought you were.
My main concern is that I know what it looks like when a church tries to literally enforce the Scriptures that seem to teach that women need a male “covering.”
i grew up under it. And God had to bring me out, to be able to use me in the calling he created me for.
Agreed, be blessed, I am truly sorry for your past hurts.
They should have never happened.
I understand – there is theory and practice disjunction often – and it has to flow naturally – plus one can speak statistically with large groups of how it works or doesn’t work – and defining success- my wife of 26 years I don’t guess thinks I lord over her and I fear her disapproval often and yet I think the kids would think she defers on spiritual/church type issues
Yeah. It’s the opposite at my house. Everyone defers to me on ministry, spiritual and relational issues but defer to my husband on issues regarding finances and administrative /organizational/planning stuff.
God said his sons and his daughters shall prophesy. Eve was deceived by satan, I believe in many situation women are more easily deceived, although this isn’t always true, many doctrines my parents came to believe were shown to my mother first and my father rejected them because in his mind at the time god would have shown it to him first, he was in a a group that belittled the role of women. But I believe women can minister without a man above them, if they are married as a Christian women they should summit to spiritual things, if he is a Christian man, even if he is wrong because each will reap what they sow, she will will be blessed and him punished if that were the case. But there are separate roles we each play, god made women to do things men couldn’t and men things women couldn’t, that’s why this feminist moment is complete crap, not that women can’t do certain things we can or work or stuff I’m not sexist, but we were simply made with different roles. But a women can be any kind of minister.
1 Tim 2, end of chapter was written in response to a situation specific to Corinth in the first century. Timothy was confronting the pagan/Jewish cult of Artemis, who taught women to grasp to control their husbands. The theology of this cult said that Eve was created first, and that Adam was deceived. And they taught that women would be kept safe through childbirth if they attended the pagan temple and took part in the rituals.
Those verses were never intended to create a doctrine that women are more easily deceived than men. Nor that having children somehow saved a woman.
Also, the preceding verses point to a shift from talking about ‘women” to “A woman”. In the greek this is significant… it seems to siginify that a specific woman had entered the church and was trying to teach others this pagan doctrine… Paul was telling Timothy to have her sit down and “learn in silence with all subjection.” This was a phrase of that day, refering specifically to teachers in training, who were sitting as prime students, and the feet of the rabbi. A teacher in training.
Mary Ellen Nissley
I am glad you pointed out that “teach” is used instead of “minister or preach”.
So often ministers and churches that do not allow women in front of the church during the regular service have no problem allowing them to teach in other areas of the church at other times.
I personally have anyways questioned that and had issues with it as well.
How are we going to witness to people who ascirbe to identifying with LGBT”Q”, if we can’t stop Tea Party biases?
Such as illegal immigration prejudice and racial bigotry?