Let’s say we get to Heaven and we discover Calvin had it right. Will that bother you? Will you be angry that you are in Heaven because God by his grace regenerated you with his Spirit so you could repent and turn to Christ, because you were one of the elect? Will you consider God to be unjust because it turned out that unsaved friend or loved one you prayed so hard for could not be saved because they were not of the elect?Panic not. I have not embraced this view. I do, however, have respect for many who do hold to this view. I’d like to hear some thoughts from those on Actscelerate on this topic________________
I cannot buy that before the beginning of time, God chose who would go to Heaven and who would go to hell. I sat under a pastor who was a strong Calvinist and learned a good bit from him about the subject. That is when I came up with my saying: It makes more sense that God gave them free will to believe in predestination than God predestined me to believe in free will. I cannot go with babies, who would not have come to Him based on predestination, going to hell. There are lots of verses that support predestination. My answer is that both predestination and free will occur. Paul was predestined, IMHO, for example. John 3:16
If when I got to heaven, I were to find that Calvin was correct, I suppose the fact that I arrived there would mean I had had no choice but to worship and serve Him.
Of course they would reply that God loved YOU so much that he called you unto salvation. et________________
If Calvin is right, does that mean only whites get in?And since Calvin is right, does that mean RS wouldn’t be there anyway since he didn’t totally believe like Calvin and should have been burned at the stake in this present life________________
Re: Just the Idea That…
I know some really good kids who’s dad was dabbling in Calvinism, then died at an early age, so now they have latched on to it more out of honoring him I think, then out of their own thinking. My sons love these kids, and will win every single argument with them in classroom or outside, but they are intractable. I think they approach it out of fear and some measure of pride as well. I feel very sorry for them. I don’t think it will cost them their soul since they obviously believe in Christ for their salvation, but it will cause confusion among those that they love and children they raise (not all of whom can be elect, so I wonder if they will tell them the bad news that some of them will be going to hell).
Re: Just the Idea That…
Very well said. I don’t know how one could say God is Love under that situation. It seems totally wrong that God would do such a thing.On the other hand, I also don’t understand since I think we agree, that God already knows who will make it to heaven, why he ever created the ones going to hell in the first place. Perhaps I am restating the predestined theory and don’t realize it
Such an idea is repulsive to the Imago Dei within us. God’s attribute of justice eliminates such a notion. I’m not sure you and OTCP are being accurate in your description of Calvinism. But I will say this…God would be justified in sending all of us to Hell. An injustice happens every time someone goes to Heaven. Justice demands they go to Hell. God did not give us justice, he gave us mercy.If there are six people in a room and God chooses that 3 should be his elect and find salvation and rejects the other three, no injustice is done by God. The three that go to hell get justice. The three chosen to be part of the elect get mercy________________
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and
I am only speaking in a very technical sense________________
RS, love ya son, but I disagree. The ole timer knows his Calvinism (I can smell a TULIP a half a mile away).If 6 fellers is in a room, all 6 of em was born in sin.All 6 of em is lost.None of the 6 can save their own hide.All a the 6 need a savior.
I have predestined that anyone who visits my church for the 1st time will receive a free lunch invitation (if they choose to accept) and that those who do not visit my church will not receive a free lunch invitation. While I have predestined, predetermined, pre-ordained it, folks have the free will to choose.
Re: Just the Idea That…
RS, love ya son, but I disagree. The ole timer knows his Calvinism (I can smell a TULIP a half a mile away).If 6 fellers is in a room, all 6 of em was born in sin.All 6 of em is lost.None of the 6 can save their own hide.All a the 6 need a savior.Now, if the God presented in the Bible, whose nature/attributes reveal him to be just, an he arbitrarily offers 3 of the 6 grace to be saved, but the other 3 he condemns to hell–based not on His foreknowledge of how the 6 will respond to the gospel, but based only on His desire to see 3 in heaven an 3 in hell–God IS NOT acting according to his attribute of justice. Justice would be sending them all to hell________________