1992 Church of God Resolution on POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT
WHEREAS the Church of God as a member of the National Association of Evangelicals has endorsed and agreed to support “Christian Citizenship Campaign” (CCC); and
WHEREAS the two main objectives of the NAE resolution are to encourage Christians to pray for their leaders and to exercise their liberties to register and vote as a part of the democratic process; and
WHEREAS the Church of God is an international organization which has historically encouraged Christians to seek godly means to improve standards of their respective societies;
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that in cooperation with the National Association of Evangelicals, the Church of God encourages all constituents to avail themselves of every opportunity to peacefully and orderly register, vote, and otherwise seek to improve the health, safety, and general welfare of all mankind (1 Peter 2:12); and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that all political efforts should be thoughtfully constructed and effected with prayerful deliberation, knowing that we shall give account to God for every deed done (Romans 2:12), or not done, in accordance with His divine and eternal plan for man (64th A., 1992, p. 79).
Re: Oprah – God will decide if Oprah runs for President
THANKS NBF. I have been worried to death about this. I will be waiting for the report of the answer. It is probably okay for a democrat to talk to God and hear back.Things are better………….. God is good. Now I can rest!THANKS again! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Probably will laugh at it – unless Oprah says Oprah is God. That would be a neat twist________________
Probably will laugh at it – unless Oprah says Oprah is God. That would be a neat twist.
Re: Apart means…
If I were seeking to plant a church I would certainly consider every available resource. That being said, when I saw that Christine Cain was on the ARC leadership team, that would cause me to keep looking. YMM________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Re: Is ARC good for the Church of God? Questions about ARC
Great topic. Here’s my take:The ARC partnership and others (CMN, etc…) along with the COG Church Planting Bank is a very solid, Gospel posture for the COG. They are two different mechanisms that work in conjunction with one another. We have historically had our COG sons and daughters connecting with ARC in absence of a functional partnership and structure for funding. The reason these ARC churches with COG pastors do not organize with the CoG is that it doesn’t make sense financially for the church plant. The partnership along with our own bank solves that very legitimate objection/condition. The church Planting Bank received $1.5 million in funds in its first year. My sense is that appropriation level will and should continue annually. Since it is a loan repayment Bank, that will be a growing fund. 10 years from now with zero fundraising (which can and should happen), the fund would be a $15 million dollar fund in a constant state of lending and repayment. The fund is replenished as new churches begin paying the loan back. This happens upon launch (not a fuzzy organization day that happens somewhere out in the future). The repayment happens at a rate of 10% or all tithes and offerings. Upon repayment, the church then begins sending in 10% of tithe, which is actually a lower commitment than the repayment amount. This arrangement:-funds more church plants-raises denominational investment into new churches-retains more young leaders-speeds the organization of new churches-and attracts young leaders, a demographic we cannot afford to continue losing to ARC, Acts 29and other church planting networks. Thank God for their work. But, thank God for our sons and daughters too. We are doing some good things in this arena to advance the ball.
Curious to read your response to Travis SouthFlorida.Not picking on you.I’m a big ARC fan & I attend their events as often as possible – very encouraging every time.Interesting I often see other CoG guys there & some seem a bit out of sorts with the whole ARC plan when I visit with them. I think we should get behind it with our funds, our commitments & advance the daylights out of these types of opportunities.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I think that’s just a misunderstanding of the church Planting partnerships/church planting back setup. That isn’t your fault. We’ve just got to communicate it well. That takes time, work, and intentionality. They are COG plants. Michael Williams in Madison, AL and Shane Tarpley in Temple, GA are very sharp guys…new churches…digging it out. They each received $50,000 and had to raise a matching $50,000. They are both launched and are sending in 10% total to rebuild the bank for the next planters behind them. I love that!
I think that’s just a misunderstanding of the church Planting partnerships/church planting back setup. That isn’t your fault. We’ve just got to communicate it well. That takes time, work, and intentionality. They are COG plants. Michael Williams in Madison, AL and Shane Tarpley in Temple, GA are very sharp guys…new churches…digging it out. They each received $50,000 and had to raise a matching $50,000. They are both launched and are sending in 10% total to rebuild the bank for the next planters behind them. I love that!When you think about that, we have the capacity to push $3 million into church planting from our $1.5 million appropriation. The next ten years, that would have us looking at a rolling $30 million into church planting. Powerful!
Hi Pastor Woodard,The General Assembly doesn’t need to pass an agenda item in order for an appropriation to be made to church planting. The COG should be functioning in that direction as a default. However, the GA did pass a motion to establish a church Planting Bank at the last GA. Sean O’Neal submitted the motion. The body is speaking.
I think that’s just a misunderstanding of the church Planting partnerships/church planting back setup. That isn’t your fault. We’ve just got to communicate it well. That takes time, work, and intentionality. They are COG plants. Michael Williams in Madison, AL and Shane Tarpley in Temple, GA are very sharp guys…new churches…digging it out. They each received $50,000 and had to raise a matching $50,000. They are both launched and are sending in 10% total to rebuild the bank for the next planters behind them. I love that!When you think about that, we have the capacity to push $3 million into church planting from our $1.5 million appropriation. The next ten years, that would have us looking at a rolling $30 million into church planting. Powerful! 30 million in 10 years with a “ BIG IF†that none of the churches plants fail or have hard times. What will be our loss ratio of church plants? I love arc it is a great deal for the Church of God international office and an excutive committee that is desperate for church plants. It relieves them of the finding funds burden. . But how much is the church of God contributing to the local church aside from what arc is bringing to the table. We know 50 grand is coming from ARC how much money in addition to the arc funds is coming from the church of God. The church of God needs to contribute as well. 1.5 million in an account is great but what is the church of God’s expectation. What is the church of God’s financial commitment to the church plant that receives arc funds is the cog providing 50,000 like arc or is it much less. I just want to make sure the cog brass is pulling the weight. I have been involved as a consultant at 4 arc church plants. I have been on the launch Sunday’s no one presently plants churches like arc. They are excellent. I have seen a/g and non denominational churches launch in Florida with over 200 on the first Sunday. But what is the church of God contributing? 1.5 million will only supply funding for about 10-20churches if we do Those churches RIGHT. We need to pull our weight in this relationship. Cause if we don’t the planting pastor will just do arc on there own with no relationship with the COG. I think the COG needs to commit to giving a set amount of money just like arc. We need to make this fair we don’t need to give more funding to one plant while neglecting the other plant. Politics need to neutral in this. The cog just needs to say X amount of money is available to x amount of church plants if and only if you commit to the cog/arc planting agreement . No more no less money than x amount of money to the church plant. Arc tells you up front what is available to you. We need to do the same. if The COG doesn’t provide more than name to the planting relationship we are just going to lose more churches. And if those church splits and pull outs occur they can get arc funding. We really are at a disadvantage. I know 2 churches in the last 5 years that are COG pull outs or splits that have gotten arc funds presenting themselves as new Church plants it is tough we need to bring something to the table. SouthFloridaman (I like that name),ARC isn’t putting up the money. The COG is. If an approved church planter comes up with $50,000, a matching $50,000 comes from the COg church planting bank. That money largely comes from the TOT. I cannot agree with you more. The COG needs to have skin in the game (as does the planter). This arrangement achieves that. Another thing that I very much agree with you about. Favoritism and politics should have zero place in who received this money. That specifically has been addressed. I do not think it is settled for life. We are particularly prone to that. It is very important that we elect leaders that advance people based on merit and not on anything else. We have put together a process to shield against this. I believe it is our heart to do this. If there is a place that we will slip up on this intiqgive, this is it (I believe).Finally, some church plants are will fail. We need to be OK with that. The way we ins Kate ourselves against that is to get and keep solid church planters on the approval committee and stay out of our way so they can select the right people without interference. If we award funds to people who are not ready, who have a spouse who isnt ready, who hasn’t demonstrated the qualities necessary for planting, or who isn’t properly vetted, we will have too high of a failure rate. That will result in lost credibility and the inability to maintain the trust needed to co TJ he advancing the initiative and the fund.
clarity needs to be paramount in this. There needs to transparency and accountability for the church planting bank.
what is the COG planting banks role and responsibilities. what money is coming from ARC and what support is coming from the COG Planting Bank. I went to USA Missions which is a great website and looks sharp, but there is not much depth to the how and relation of the organization to the planting initiative. I understand what the goals are and what we plan to do which is very well done. I just want to know the how we plan to do it clearly dictated like arc is dictated. I believe that clarity would provide much great support from our church of God members and pastors because we know more than just what we plan to do we know the how.I can also confirm that Arc (UNKNOWINGLY in ARC’s defense) has unwittingly empowered splits and pull outs of churches in our organization in the past out of respect for those churches that this happened to I wish not to name the names but if you private message me I can discuss in detail. what is our promise from arc or that arc will help us prevent those splits and pull outs? is a promise like that is it even possible. in one church that no longer exists arc funded 2 splits founded by the former staff of that church. both churches started in movie theaters albeit on opposite ends of town. this ended in the church of God losing the church and the property falling into foreclosure. While the splits are still operating til this present day. this happened about 7 years ago.
ðŸ‘ðŸ»
It was very good.Thankfully we have a President that doesn’t care if it is non PC – he gave honor to a man that deserved it.Nicely done Mr. President.Very nicely done.I do wonder if it would have been done if Hillary was President or Pelosi was speaker of the House? Not really. We all know it wouldn’t be.And for the negative nellies on Acts that regularly chastise Christians for voting for Trump – we humbly accept your begrudging praise for having elected President Trump________________
Amazing 27, There was nothing said about repentance. This was honoring a man who had served the Lord. The highest elected official in the USA said, Billy Graham served out Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.I think it was a very honorable thing to do.This is a Christian Nation, I think he underscored that.Wait until next week or tomorrow to kick the man. Today he done good! A little advice, when your child does something commendable, don’t smack ’em and say but last week you didn’t make your bed. Take time to smile and say ‘You done good!________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Couldn’t agree more about the first part — but, I don’t think the latter is necessarily true. He’s shown he has a lot of conservative impulses too. What I think is key is that they’re impulses — abrupt, thoughtless decisions based on whatever happens to me going through his mind at the time. And whether conservative or leftist, the impulses seem to tend toward the authoritarian side. That was what concerned me the most about Trump, and this is an excellent example of it.He’s already walking it back today — wish I could have been a fly on the wall in the West Wing last night. But maybe this will give some of the Trump fanatics pause. He’s on your side til he ain’t.But he has spent the day walking it back, and that’s a small comfort. Well, when he wasn’t starting trade wars that is.
Perhaps he will run as a Democrat next time________________
Couldn’t agree more about the first part — but, I don’t think the latter is necessarily true. He’s shown he has a lot of conservative impulses too. What I think is key is that they’re impulses — abrupt, thoughtless decisions based on whatever happens to me going through his mind at the time. And whether conservative or leftist, the impulses seem to tend toward the authoritarian side. That was what concerned me the most about Trump, and this is an excellent example of it.He’s already walking it back today — wish I could have been a fly on the wall in the West Wing last night. But maybe this will give some of the Trump fanatics pause. He’s on your side til he ain’t.But he has spent the day walking it back, and that’s a small comfort. Well, when he wasn’t starting trade wars that is. 🙂 I wasn’t meaning to imply that he had
Is it safe to say that most of you Trump bashers don’t agree with 1 Timothy 2:2?And save the comment that you’re not a Trump basher/hater when all you do is look for the wrong when it concerns this POTUS.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Yep, the man says things that can be taken MUCH FURTHER than he actually means. Oh yes, he irritates me no end not running everything thru some filters. Maybe in three years he may learn to be a politician, maybe not. I get the feeling he needs teleprompters 24/7 but that ain’t gonna happen. Yep, there he done it again! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Yeah JD, I will say it again. That tired statement said time and time again by us NEVER HILLARY guys, at least I ain’t hearing Madam President.And I was proud of him and our GOP leadership with their response to Billy Graham.Hey we have what we have. I pray and hope for the best. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
And if this was said about that fool who killed school kids I am on his side.If you hear a person said, I am gonna be a school shooter.Or someone says the dude had an AR15 and talks about killing folk. the law should take the dude’s gun and let him get it back thru the system.If he is thinking about one case, it is ‘dumb’ street talk, take lthe danged thing before he kills someone!Nah, wait until he pulls the trigger. That to me is stupid.But I am not considering the constitution at the time, I am considering a THREAT, two different things.! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I was assuming the arrest and jail thing. But YES I agree with you here, I just run off at the typewriter without totally expressing myself.SIDE NOTE: removed to start another subject without hijacking________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Consider, that when someone is arrested, they can sit in jail for MONTHS before they are tried (due to bail issues, etc.). That is, they are jailed without due process before being found guilty of a crime.If someone is considered a threat due to their guns, it is a minor inconvenience to simply have your guns sequestered until the law checks things out. The person is not locked up, etc. But if someone is considered a threat and we WAIT, but then tragedy takes place, who in their right mind wouldn’t think their guns should have been taken before it reached this point?If it were a matter of being jailed, then, yes, due process first. But inasmuch as the law already does a number of things in which a person is arrested, etc., BEFORE due process is given, it seems absolutely reasonable to insist upon the minor inconvenience of having one’s guns sequestered until due process is served. It’s not like the person isn’t getting to eat, or go to work, etc.
Re: I think it makes perfect sense…
If its unconstitutional – then we have nothing to worry about, right?The Supremes always get it right________________
Why are so many looking to the Federal Government to protect kids in public schools? Schools are not Federal. Any Sheriff in any school district in any State can step in right now and do something. Why are we looking to the city of Rome on the Potomac thousands of miles away to provide solutions for a school district in North Dakota________________
Do you consider this to be just? Dave, it depends….I do NOT think it is just or right to have a person sit in prison simply because he/she is too poor to afford bail (assuming this is not some crime where letting them out could be disastrous). That amounts to debtor’s prison, in some ways.BUT…If the person in jail was attempting to kill his ex-, or was thought to be trying to set off a dirty bomb, do you think it’s a good idea for them to be released before we determine the particulars?I realize it isn’t perfect, but sometimes we have to place a hold on someone UNTIL we can determine if they are truly a danger. It’s one thing to lock someone up for, say, sitting in a field drunk, but not harming anyone. It’s another thing to lock someone up who there is reason to think was planning to kill or injure someone.But as I pointed out, when it comes to having one’s guns sequestered until the particulars can be investigated, that is not something that in any reasonable scenario is truly an inconvenience. I mean, if the police wanted my guns during an investigation, I might not like it, but the truth is that in most cases, I’d probably be about as handy with a bat or knife, as I would with a firearm. In other words, it’s not exactly like them causing me to lose my job, or lose my home, or what have you.
My feelings exactly!It seems we are asking the WRONG people about protecting our children! These things should be handled locally. Someone should have the responsibility of protecting our children in schools. With that responsibility should come the resources needed. Period.
Guess some guys aren’t good at teaching it________________
(Image) (link)
on the flip side I am in shock that 1350 In attendance is the largest cog in the whole state of Alabama.😱😲😳 There are 3 southern Baptist churches in my town over 1500. The church of God has to do something folks. We gotta figure something out.. We need bigger cog’s. More than the Tithe of tithe thing. Honestly destination church may be a younger congregation we have to take that into consideration people under 50 make less now then they did when we were there age. We need to be celebrating them if they are a younger Church Reaching a new group. This Reminds me of old economy steve thinking things stay the same. Sometimes things aren’t the same as they were back in the day. Here is an explanation of old economy Steve if you need one. He is the poster child of why millennials everywhere are angry at there parents.www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/old-economy-steve-the-official-meme-for-embittered-millennials/276285/
This one is my favorite from Old Economy Steve.
I don’t affirm tithing as a NT practice, nor can I affirm fixed denominational tithes. But with that said — I don’t understand why the envelope has an option.When pastors preach tithing to their congregations, they preach that a tenth is to be given of ALL their increase. Not just paychecks, but a tenth of all the increase they receive, as was the case under the Law. Proverbs 3:9says, Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of
It’s offering and no percentages are paid________________
I am always amazed at myself. I can justify my opinions and actions even if they go against some of my friends opinions.I doubt if ‘lying’ is a part of MOST COG preacher’s actions or ideas. They are just looking at it from a different angle. There is a lot of truth in many churches that ‘push’ the idea we used to have in the COG, get the kids in church have much less income.________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
No I don’t. My son borrowed all three of my guns and they were stolen. I had a Russian 7.62 sniper rifle I had customized after buying it for $8. My pride was my ‘cowboy’ 30 cal., but I have never owned what is referred to as an assault rifle.But I would give $50 for my M1, ser # 4508231 I carried for a couple years. hahahahaI have never fired the M1 Carbine.But for an old guy, I would prefer it to the newer assault rifles. But I think that is age RR! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I just love the history behind it. Kind of the same way I feel about my British Enfield 303________________
it’s a lot of fun at the rang________________
I understand the AR15 is the civilian version of the M15-16. I do not really know. But I do know (from conversations with active duty guys) That the AR-15 IS NOT military. For a long time I thought it was________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I wouldn’t know this without the internet. My wife just read this from the local papers back home. I have many kin in Kings Mt., several have took that ride in back of a cruiser. I was scared reading the article. I lost a great nephew on that same road three weeks ago, but it was a single car accident. No alcohol nor drugs, just a good kid winding out his new Mustang. I can imagine the suicide guys family now. TERRIBLE! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Re: Guns and law enforcement (MISTAKES)
Turns out this one wasn’t a tar heel, he had transferred in from Kenucky! But yes siree. Kings Mt. is a small town. Yep the guy yes sir’d and No sir’d. Even apologized for causing Mr. Policeman any trouble. Was nicer than a preacher from Hazard County, KY. REal friendly like they rode off.How very sad..________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
So they ordered him to throw it away, which would have necessitated a rapid movement of the arm and especially the hand with which he was holding the gun, and then shot him as he slowly and carefully put it down instead?
Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. NETMy understanding is in essential agreement with the Reformers which you have cited. I would only add that in my view, it is all about the work of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, as we live, love, breathe, sit, walk, and stand in Him, that we are truly empowered and transformed from the heart to fulfill the law of Christ (or, the moral law, aka God’s love law). It is not merely keeping Commandments as a list of dos and don’ts, in my view. One keeps God’s commands because of the love of God which has been poured out abundantly in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, not because one just decides to keep them in one’s own strength of resolve.
Uh Oh, you boys done done it now. You done brought Calvin into the conversation.
QW, great thoughts. I agree. My PC is off right now due to a storm, but I’ll share some more on my view when I can.
Torah
Thanks for your post and participation, Mark. I’m looking forward to the discussion as well. I think many Protestants — myself definitely included — err toward antinomianism in their efforts to affirm and defend the Gospel. But this was not the case with the Reformers, who opposed the antinomians as strongly as they opposed the legalists.We ought to be vigorous opponents of legalism and calls to obey the Law for righteousness, but that doesn’t mean the Law isn’t holy and righteous and good, and it doesn’t mean the Law doesn’t have value and benefit for those who are in Christ.I affirm the third use of the Law as described by the Reformers: the use of the Law as Guide.I see Christ as the fulfillment of the Law in two ways: first, His keeping and fulfilling of the Law
Brad, this is not the thread for this conversation. I have asked you politely to respect my intention that this thread work from the basis that both Law and Gospel are to be preached today. If you would like to take issue with that presumption, please do so in another thread.
Delet________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
If these ‘numbers’ from individual churches are not for the ‘public or members’ and only for pastors, then the source should not be shown unless you have some password or control. But if you show a file, available to someone like me, ‘just a member’ then you (the state) looks ‘sloopy’ in their record keeping if you are 3-4 months behind. It is hard to take YOU seriously if you cannot be up to date.Especially when tithe of tithe money is paying some one to record and publish statistics. EVERY WEB PAGE should be up to date if you are to be taken seriously by the searcher, or a lurker. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
It could be that with everything else that needs doing in this electronic age (some ABs do video updates monthly, etc.), perhaps the statistics are not quite the priority they once were. Just a thought..________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
It could be that with everything else that needs doing in this electronic age (some ABs do video updates monthly, etc.), perhaps the statistics are not quite the priority they once were. Just a thought… yeah, you are probably right Carolyn. Besides I don’t want to make a stink, I just looked at the staff and the one in charge of that section came from the church the wife and I planted. She is a sweet heart, he family was TOPS. She is married to a successful independent pastor now. There must be some reason the site isn’t updated, she has always been very efficient! So Imma just gonna be patient. We will head back to NC in a few weeks so I can talk to our new pastor and learn first hand. Hope you are staying warm. Someone up there left the door open and the cool air make it to Florida. Turn up the heator close the door! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
🤔 Shalom, I have finally listened to ur teaching sheepdogandy, & just wanted to point something’s out. U used the verse John 1:17, u emphasized the word but Grace & Truth… Andy, that word but was placed there by man Another thing was u spoke about the great silence between Old & New Testaments, which is True, but did the prophet Malachi say before this great silence? Mal 4:4; Remember You The Law (Torah/Instructions) of Moses My servant, which I Commanded unto him in Horeb for ALL Y’srael with Statutes and JudgementsWhat was the point of Y’shua fulfilling the Law so u could eat a ham sandwich everyday? What was the purpose, so u could fill ur belly with what G-d calls an abomination? I now u read that as ur going through the Bible. U say Y’shua fulfilled the Law of G-d, Y’shua is G-d, or are there 2 doing 2 different things? Do u believe He is G-d, the Great I Am, from Everlasting to Everlasting, the 1st & the last etc? Because if u do (u should) ur sermon is ur sermon, G-d had no part, that’s not who He is….U talk about how it’s the Spirit who gives *life*, & that’s True, He is the Living Word/Torah which has *life* to those that keep it Dt 30:19-20. The Law is Spiritual Rom 7:14, His Spirit will lead *us* into ALL Truth, Truth is His Torah😋I have many other things to discuss with u, but I will leave on this note: in ur good news section with ur faith statement, u used Isa 7:9;…. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established & then u give 3 great Webster’s definitions for establish….Rom 3:31; do we then make void the Law through faith? G-d forbid yes, we establish the Law😉________________Ps 122:6
OK now share the rest of it.In context please. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
Andy, believe me I can, but that’s not the purpose. Just the few things I pointed out, & that was in the beginning, shouldn’t concern u, doesn’t it? Doesn’t that bother u that ur not telling people total Truth’ Way about the L-rd? Do ur history, in the Book of Acts they were known as the people of the Way. John the Baptist, prepare you the Way….’6There is a *way* that *seems* right unto man but in the end thereof are the *ways* of death Prov 14:12…. Please, repent, seek the L-rd & His Righteousness & u shall be filled. Don’t be one sheppard’s with ear tickling messages 2 Tim 4:3Jer 3:15; & I will give you pastors according to *My* heart, which shall feed you with the Knowledge and Understanding. Thats all the Book of Prov, example chapters 1-4… Knowledge & Understanding of G-ds Torah which are His Instructions for Life Dt 30:19-20, which is His heart Jer 3:15+ all of Ps 119. According to Jewish understanding the heart of YHVH is the TorahNotice that G-d says He’s going to give you Shepherds according to His heart not according to your heart, ur knowledge & understanding. G-d always works through His sheppard’s that speaks of His heartThere are of course sheppard’s that are not of His heart, & u unfortunately have that responsibility to figure out which is right, in all the text of the Bible, not according to the last preacher sermons and denominational standardsThat’s the shepherd’s responsibility, to give Knowledge and Understanding of G-ds heart, Ways, His Torah. His shepherds are Torah teachers, now with the faith in Y’shua to live like He did& U never answered it, & u don’t have to, but I want u to think about what the question I gave you about why would Y’shua deliver you from the food Laws, what was the purpose of Him delivering you from abomination of pigs that you can eat it now? Or what was the purpose of changing the Sabbath day, u keep sunday? Can talk all day on this message, because it deals with the heart. Back in Jeremiah’s Days, Old Testament days, there was a lot of rebellion no one wanted to hear their message, or Moshes message or the apostles message of keeping Torah…..I pray G-d will open our hearts, to see something that has been replaced, and we need to repent and come back, restore to the ancient paths that have been lost Isa 58:12________________Ps 122:6
Galatians 2:11Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.Touchdown o________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
It’s so sad. Proponents of the law point to all of the Old Testament heroes of the faith. Reading Hebrews chapter 11 is very clear. All of those heroes of the OT looked forward to
I agree. I would like to talk more about the Third Use of the Law on this forum, and I have some threads I’d like to post on that subject. I think it’s an excellent topic for Christians to discuss. But that topic is discussed in and through Christ.All I ever see in Isa 58:12’s posts is Moshe and the Torah. I never see anything about Jesus, except as someone whose work enabled us to access the real grace in Moshe and the Torah. It is tragic and sad.The Law is holy and good, but as with everything else, it can only be approached and understood through Christ. It seems Isa 58:12
________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I agree. I would like to talk more about the Third Use of the Law on this forum, and I have some threads I’d like to post on that subject. I think it’s an excellent topic for Christians to discuss. But that topic is discussed in and through Christ.All I ever see in Isa 58:12’s posts is Moshe and the Torah. I never see anything about Jesus, except as someone whose work enabled us to access the real grace in Moshe and the Torah. It is tragic and sad.The Law is holy and good, but as with everything else, it can only be approached and understood through Christ. It seems Isa 58:12would prefer we understand Christ through Moshe and the Torah. Lots here that would bless the soul of man thru Christ. Good DD ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Foul!!, Ur off sides sheepdog this is not speaking u don’t have to keep Torah, this is a conversation of the religious Jews doctrine that a Gentile had to become Jewish. Pharisaic concept was the Pharisees handed down to the people certain observances from the father’s which the Law Moshe never wrote, and the Pharisees put yolks and bondages on people Rom 15:10Gal 2:4-5says there were false Brethren that came in….Paul had been chosen to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles vs 7, & Peter was chosen to preach the Gospel to the Jews vs 8. Notice it’s the same Gospel, same Message as John the Baptist & Y’shua. The gentiles didn’t get a different Gospel ðŸ˜________________Ps 122:6
I agree. I would like to talk more about the Third Use of the Law on this forum, and I have some threads I’d like to post on that subject. I think it’s an excellent topic for Christians to discuss. But that topic is discussed in and through Christ.All I ever see in Isa 58:12’s posts is Moshe and the Torah. I never see anything about Jesus, except as someone whose work enabled us to access the real grace in Moshe and the Torah. It is tragic and sad.The Law is holy and good, but as with everything else, it can only be approached and understood through Christ. It seems Isa 58:12would prefer we understand Christ through Moshe and the Torah. Well dave, discuss it then. But remember that I already told u that ur gonna have to let go of something’s u have learned to understand G-ds Ways, Laws, Instructions. Are u willing to do that? Because if u don’t it won’t be beneficial to anyone. Btw, no one said anything von what I said to sheepdog, did I say something wrong?& Dave, u won’t understand what Y’shua says or who He is without the Torah. John 5:46-47; if you believed Moshe/Torah, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me, but if you *don’t believe* what he wrote,. ??how?? Will *you* believe what I say????Good question ðŸ˜________________Ps 122:6
It doesn’t seem like you actually have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, so it’s difficult to see what value could be gained from discussion.
It doesn’t seem like you actually have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, so it’s difficult to see what value could be gained from discussion.If I asked you to articulate the gospel to me, what would you say? Keep it as simple and straightforward as you can. How can I not have a saving relationship with Y’shua when I’m doing what He asked in John 14:15; if you love Me keep my Commandments. & And how many is that as He is G-d?, all of them 😉. But not for Salvation just as Messiah didn’t keep it for Salvation….It’s really not hard, you’re making it harder than it really is & ur missing it. Law & Grace are One, They go together, if there is no Law there is no need of Grace, and since there is Law there’s Grace. It’s when we break G-d’s Law’s/Commandments and ask for forgiveness in repentance the Grace of G-d covers us and forgives us in that sin of breaking Laws/Torah/InstructionsNow sheepdog, if u study out Law and Grace in that mindset of the Bible you would have an awesome lesson to help people in their walk with the L-rd 😉ðŸ˜________________Ps 122:6
Question for Isa 58:12
Isa 58:12can you assist me by answering the following:Maybe I’ve missed this along the way but can you explain why you never spell out the name of God or Lord …etc??I see that you spell G-d but you never spell it out the way we’ve seen it in the traditional American understanding of how the bible spells it.Do you claim to be a Messianic Jew? Are you a follower of Jesus as your personal Messiah?Thx, Dea________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Hebrews 8:6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.8 Because finding fault with them, He says: Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah–9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD.10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.13 In that He says, A new covenant,
I have always done it when I gave my life 2 the L-rd in 2000 in baptism, but really in the hospital in 1998. I was writing to someone about the Bible I think in 1999, I had in the background a preacher who talked about how the Jews put the dash in G-d as not to profane it. Now I now G-d is not His Name, but loved that sort of dedication to G-d & wanted to have the same for the One that saved me & I just have done it ever since. It’s like I have done it as a child…Yes 😋&Yes 😇Shalo________________Ps 122:6
Flag on the play, false start! Heb 8is speaking of the High Priest has changed vs 1-5, vs 6 is speaking of Messiah has a more excellent ministry, He is our High Priest now, He is the mediator of a better Covenant, which was established upon better promises, not better Laws. Btw, the New Covenant is to Y’sreal & Y’udah, not according to the 1st one…. I will give u a better Promise right now from G-d in the New Covenant. In the 1st Covenant Commanded that they write the Laws on their hearts. Dt 11:18,22,*13*, Prov 3:3, 6:1, 7:3, Ex 13:9. In the New, Heb 8, Jer 31, Ezek 11:19-20which we do & keep G-d’s Torah from our hearts 😉Btw, when a gentile/stranger first part took of his first Passover, he was now as one born in the land (Rom 11;17) and one Torah was to him Ex 12:48-49. Num 15:15-16; One Ordnance shall be both for you of the congregation, and *also* for the stranger/gentile that sojourners with you, an Ordnance **forever** in your generations as you are, so shall the stranger/gentile be *before* the L-rd vs 16; One Law/Torah and one manager shall be for you, and *for* the stranger/gentile that sojourns with youGame over, Glory be to G-d!________________Ps 122:6
Dave,
While the Apostle Paul provides us with insights into the Resurrection unknown to the Pharisees, yet as a Pharisee he would be fully aware of a fundamental principle of the resurrection – rewards for the righteous and retribution for the unrighteous. His encounter with a Resurrected Jesus (Acts 9) and subsequent three years in which he developed the Gospel message he took to the Gentiles (Galatians 1:15f) obviously gave new meaning to the importance of the resurrection to Jesus’ followers (1 Corinthians 15; Philippians 3:21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13f, etc.)
Prayers for the family here. This is so sad. God comfort the family! Amen________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
creepy
For a civilization – the greater good is the Christian life.For one individual – Paul says maybe not. Step on others to get ahead, fornicate, drink, divorce, remarry, puff MaryJane, – why not? You only go around once in life, so grab all the gusto you can(sad that I still remember that commercial). Isn’t that the definition of the hedonistic lifestyle? Might as well try it since you are going to be dead soon anyway. Pascal knew a lot about computer theory (long before it was possible) – but his wager doesn’t line up with Paul________________
If all that mankind had was the law written on their hearts via creation (Rom 1) and conscience (Rom 2), and if they chose to obey that which God has inscribed in the hearts of all, the world would be a better place indeed. Tragically, we all know that mankind has for the most part chosen not to obey the revelation they do have, and as such are declared guilty (Rom 3).
Amen. I’m taking a homiletics class right now and during the first session the teacher challenged everyone to always ask of the sermons they were preparing: Could I preach this if Christ didn’t rise?
If Christ did not rise
then Sartre in his treatise of existential nihilism Being and Nothingness was correct. Why should we live modestly, purely when there is no apparent reason to do so? Not only that there is no meaning to our existence. existentsial nihilism says that to be honest, one must face the absurdity of existence, that he/she will eventually die, and that both religion and metaphysics are simply results of the fear of death.
Perhaps you misunderstand. No one here (so far as I can see) is proposing this as a potential truth.However, one way to understand and communicate the necessity of something is to imagine what it would be like without it. That is what Paul is doing in 1 Corinthians 15:12-34
Re: Not sure I agree but ok
Well, I agree with that, but who in this thread is discussing that?
He provided the keys to true meaning of life:You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. – Matthew 22:37You shall love your neighbor as yourself. – Matthew 22:39Treat people the same way you want them to treat you… – Matthew 7:12If mankind could somehow live these principles from the heart, there would be a vast improvement in how we treat one another________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
The whole thought methinks hovers around how you were raised. I became an unbeliever for many years, but even thought I thought my dad was honestly mislead, I still believed the teachings of Jesus Christ were good rules to live by, so I did in business. I gave as good a product as possible and tried my best to be honest with customers. Of course this was an unbeliever who had a Bible back ground. It was normal for me. I believed with all my being, you die and that is it. But I still wanted to be honest.I am not sure if one was raised in an enviornment where their mama was a prostitute or their dad was a drug dealer and CHURCH was COMPLETELY OUT OF THE PICTURE. nbf SAID: Step on others to get ahead, fornicate, drink, divorce, remarry, puff MaryJane, – why not? You only go around once in life, so grab all the gusto you can. ****Since I had a Bible back ground, I gave no consideration to the thoughts in NBF’s post, but I think a person with another back ground might think along those lines. I think an honest human down in their heart does not want to hurt anyone who has not hurt them, So I do fall on the side that most ‘individuals’s’ have a built in motivation that says ‘treat your neighbor honestly.’Or as Jesus taught, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I once had a situation in which the husband of a member of my church suffered from a long-term debilitating illness which required long-term care. He had to be in the hospital for several months straight. Even though I generally don’t enjoy hospital visits, I really didn’t mind visiting him and found him to always be pleasant and actually fun to visit with. He was quite the storyteller. He had served in the US Navy in WWII.However, the hospital he was in was an hour away, I was working a full-time job on top of trying my best to be a faithful pastor, husband and father, and I could only get over to see him about once a week. It wasn’t an acute illness, but was a long-term condition, so I really didn’t see any need to visit him every single day or even every other day. Anyway, the lady’s daughter, who was raised in our church but who had married a Baptist and attended a Baptist Church nearby, got her pastor to go see her Dad in the hospital, and we both happened to show up about the same time. He was leaving as I was arriving. In the hallway, he tried to shame me a bit, saying the family had had to ask him to visit their sick relative. I thought it was just about the weirdest thing I ever heard, him acting like he had to go to so much trouble to visit his member’s father, and then insinuating that I hadn’t been up to visit the man as often as I should have.
I am with Dave here. I asked my pastor several times to visit my son. He never did. My son is a member of his church, but very inactive and back slid-den.I then wrote the local 4SQ pastor and asked him to visit my son and sent him a good offering for his expense. He said he felt awkward visiting someone else’s members. He did drop by and left his card.When I was a pastor I felt obligated to visit when asked by my members and did. I did meet one pastor there and he said what I would have said, Thank God, he can never have too many people praying for him.I think the Sheik done well, he honored his member!________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
We have a member of our church who has been in the hospital for about 2 months.She went in for a simple procedure & it’s went south from there.So in an act of compassion during the first couple of weeks, I posted to our church group how we should all band together for prayer & ask God for a miracle.Her step daughter from half way across America sent me a message asking me to not go back in at all because the family wants her condition to remain private & they do not want any pastoral visits.Would have been nice to know that going in.Fortunately the whole church saw that I tried like crazy to turn it around but for some reason they have embraced a tight privacy clause to which I don’t know why. We have people who work in the hospital who tell me she has a staph infection & they’re having a hard time keeping it under control, surely not bad enough to keep me away since I’ve been her pastor for almost 20 years. ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I once led to the Lord an unsaved family member of a neighbor family that happened to attend a particular church. This family member did not attend their church. He wasn’t even saved. In their living room he really began to open up to me and by the evening was over he had accepted Christ. This was a grown man. I told him the first thing he needed to do was to get baptized. He wanted ME to do it. So, in a near-by lake , I did just that. Afterward, I encouraged him to attend his sister’s church. She and her family were the neighbors I spoke of previously.About a week later, the sectional Presbyter of his sister’s pastor called and rebuked me for baptizing this young man without his permission. Puzzled, I told him I did not understand why he felt that way since the man in question had been unsaved and was not a member of his church. I even told him that I had encouraged the young man to go to his church. The pastor’s response was, since his sister was already a member at a church in my section, that automatically placed him under the umbrella of my jurisdiction. A few months later one of his members came to me with a financial need. I told him I would only help him if his Presbyter allowed it. So we called. He stuttered and stammered and gave his consent, thanking me. I admit though, I did that to embarrass him________________
He deserved it & I bet the District Sup. would not have been impressed had he known of the man’s silly behavior________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
He deserved it & I bet the District Sup. would not have been impressed had he known of the man’s silly behavior. Roger that________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
thank you
Thank you so much for this Word. I have been feeling as of late my preaching is mediocre at best – shucks – I wouldnt even want to listen to me right now . . . thank you so much for this encouragement….Blessings________________Pastor Mike IPHC Pastor
From some one who is a pew sitter. Good post DD. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Some of the best preachers in the world are within an hour of my church. I’m thankful for a gracious God and kind members________________
You’re welcome, Dave, son I’m glad ya was blessed by the ole timers sermon.
You’re welcome, Dave, son I’m glad ya was blessed by the ole timers sermon.
I don’t need to defend him Chicago27 but I would like to ask you a question.Do you believe every accusation that you hear especially regarding Mr. Trump?Also, did you see where the judge told her she cannot bring the suit against him at this time?Either its due to him being in office or her accusations lacked merit/evidence.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I remember a person sending me a very negative e-mail about President Obama. His final word was, I haven’t checked this for accuracy, but I believe it. …………. We discussed it. He was wrong and admitted it.I did not believe every thing brought up by extremes against Obama. Neither do I believe every negative thing or conspiracy theory thrown out about President Trump..I have learned something in my years on this earth. Actually whether I believe it or not, THERE AIN’T A DANGED THING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. I said when Obama was elected (And I wasn’t for him) No one man can or will sink this country. In Trump’s case the same thing applies. HE cannot sink this country, it is too great a country. So you guys who absolutely despise or hate the man. Hold on. He ain’t gonna ruin the USA (so far he has helped the economy) You can put your man/woman in next time and they will FIX this Presidents errors. And all will be right with the world. Please set back and take a few deep breathes. The sky ain’t falling down. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
So what if it is true?Chicago27, what would you consider to be the appropriate response from all of us?What would you like to see happen to President Trump________________
I do not think Chicago27 is worried about Trump sinking the country. C27 is obviously a left-leaning guy who has to act outraged over Trump’s sins to cover for what he is really angry about, the fact that Trump is not promoting the Obama agenda________________
I do not think Chicago27 is worried about Trump sinking the country. C27 is obviously a left-leaning guy who has to act outraged over Trump’s sins to cover for what he is really angry about, the fact that Trump is not promoting the Obama agenda. ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Perfect response!!!________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I don’t know if Trump did or not, but if he did, he wasn’t the president of the USA… Now Bill Clinton was, and he was **caught** and everything that he did is swept under the rug and never brought up. He straight-up lied to a Grand Jury and nothing happened to him… Where was the outrage?Just throwing it out ther________________Ps 122:6
Why the need to be the moral judge of people?Sinners sin. It’s what they do. I guess the real surprise would be the moral good that those same sinners do.But I guess Pharisees have to do something to make them feel better about their own sin.________________
If you are against Trump, then you tend to only hear the bad things about him, or, if there is something good that happens, you will gravitate to some criticism of it.And if you are for him, you tend to do the opposite.If Trump cheated on his wife, he is rotten scoundrel, and he needs to be slapped with a hammer.I cannot defend the immoral or foolish things he has said or done. But I didn’t vote for him to be the moral compass of America. I WISH HE WERE…but he’s not. I voted for him because I felt he was the best choice when compared to Hillary.It came to my the other day, that I’d FAR RATHER Trump be negotiating with North Korea than George W. Bush, Clinton, or Obama. Why? Because we know that he is a ruthless negotiator. Frankly, he doesn’t care who doesn’t like it; he is doing what he thinks is right by putting America first.And our presidents SHOULD always put America first. Not because we don’t care about other nations, but because we care about our nation first. If we go under, those other nations will be in even worse trouble, as there will likely be no one to truly help them.I happen to think that Trump almost certainly did have an affair with that woman. It’s wrong. And he should apologize for his foolishness–first to his wife, then to the nation. AND THEN HE SHOULD MOVE ON!
Positions of authority often seem to be traps for sexual sin. Look at some pastors. It takes a strong man not to fall into this trap. A man’s ego loves the attention________________
He was impeached and the GOP failed in having him removed. It’s so funny to see you guys continue to justify Trump’s behavior based on saying what Clinton and Obama did. The difference is, none of you made excuses for Obamacare and Clinton. You do for Trump and continue to drink the kool-aid. It really makes me understand how people will follow the anti-christ. I’m very surprised by the support of lots of you regardless of Trump’s immorality. Maybe I’m not surprised. And, as for being left leaning, I have voted GOP in every election for all of my life except for one. I am very conservative. That’s why Trump’s immorality bothers me so much and bothers me more to see Christians give him passes every day by comparing him to Hillary and Obama. I’m sorry, I’m not justifying anything, and Clinton was supposed to be impeached but he never left, & that is hidden from the public & news. The globalists are bent on getting him out of office because he stands with Y’sreal & he is exposing all of the corruption in the WH with the democrats…. u do believe thats a good thing, right?my & thr globalists want him out! But G-d says He will give us the kings we deserve.,…________________Ps 122:6
He was impeached and the GOP failed in having him removed. It’s so funny to see you guys continue to justify Trump’s behavior based on saying what Clinton and Obama did. The difference is, none of you made excuses for Obamacare and Clinton. You do for Trump and continue to drink the kool-aid. It really makes me understand how people will follow the anti-christ. I’m very surprised by the support of lots of you regardless of Trump’s immorality. Maybe I’m not surprised. And, as for being left leaning, I have voted GOP in every election for all of my life except for one. I am very conservative. That’s why Trump’s immorality bothers me so much and bothers me more to see Christians give him passes every day by comparing him to Hillary and Obama. If anything, I was the one person on this site that protested the ill treatment of Obama. I didn’t agree with his politics, but I felt that he did want the best for America (oh, and that he wasn’t a closet Muslim, born in another country, etc.).As for Bill Clinton, he presided over one of the most successful periods in American history (OK, I do think that was largely due to Newt Gingrich’s contract with America, but still!). My issue with Clinton was not that he had an affair. As I have indicated, I would be surprised if MOST of the presidents didn’t have an affair–power puts you in the position to attract unwanted, illicit, and tempting attention. My issue with Clinton as that he LIED to a grand jury. AT THE SAME TIME, I also give him a half-pass because the whole issue was an attempt to overthrow the Democrat White House, not really a matter of national security or what have you. Further, what man is going to want to confess to something like that in front of the whole nation???I haven’t read anyone justifying or attempting to justify Trump for his obvious stupidities (plural) when it comes to the opposite sex. Like power, money can not only attract the wrong attention, but it can give you a sense of entitlement and/or the rules don’t apply to me syndrome. Even from some of the crass things that Trump said during the campaign, we can tell that he apparently needs to feed his ego when it comes to women. He has been married three times, cheating on the first wife to get the second one. At the same time, Ivana seems to still have some sort of friendly relationship with him.
He was impeached and the GOP failed in having him removed. It’s so funny to see you guys continue to justify Trump’s behavior based on saying what Clinton and Obama did. The difference is, none of you made excuses for Obamacare and Clinton. You do for Trump and continue to drink the kool-aid. It really makes me understand how people will follow the anti-christ. I’m very surprised by the support of lots of you regardless of Trump’s immorality. Maybe I’m not surprised. And, as for being left leaning, I have voted GOP in every election for all of my life except for one. I am very conservative. That’s why Trump’s immorality bothers me so much and bothers me more to see Christians give him passes every day by comparing him to Hillary and Obama. Please cite anyone justifying Trump’s former behavior with women. If you cannot cite anything, man up and apologize for misrepresenting us________________
but do I believe he had an affair with this lady? Yes!!!! Do I believe he did other bad things? Yes!!!! But, I think we fail to remember that the American people hired him knowing that he did things like this. They knew he had a past, they knew he swindled some people, they knew he was going to be offensive, they knew he was not a politician….Except for being a Billionaire, he is a lot like many of the voters in the US. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he has proven ideas, is not afraid to challenge the status quo and will not be bullied by anyone.
Bait and switch trick. I never said behavior with women. Bottom line is….there are a group of people who will always support Trump no matter what he does. He can say “look at that woman’s face….who would vote for that†and there are crickets. He can accuse Cruz’s Daddy of being involved with the Kennedy murder….crickets. Call people names like calling the reporter an SOB yesterday…..crickets. He can do no wrong.
When it comes to ethics and honesty, here’s how careers rank.Least Trusted Positions:10. Business Executives9. State Governors8. Lawyers7. Insurance Salespeople6. Senators5. HMO Managers4. Stockbrokers3. Advertising Executives2. Members of Congress1. Car SalespeopleI see Senators listed separate from Members of congress, I was wondering if Members of Congress meant the House? The Most Trusted Professions:10. Chiropractors9. Psychiatrists8. Clergy7. College Teachers6. Police Officers5. Dentists4. Engineers3. Medical doctors2. Pharmacists1. NursesAny surprises? I was surprised I feel the same about Nurses. I was glad to see that the clergy came out better than Psychiatrists! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I don’ know Henry Robertson. Where did he organize most of these. That is an AMAZING number even if he started a 15 yrs of age. I would sure like to see a years schedule, the man was a powerhouse. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
He was from KY. I know he pastored in Ohio, Kentucky, Michigan and I think even California. From what I understand me would go into a town evangelize it, plant a church and then move on.
There was a lady evangelist like that in Florida in the 30-40 era I hear! At least one large church to her credit in St. Pete or Tampa! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Keep in mind that there’s really no such thing as 1 John, 2 John, or 3 John. There are three distinct epistles that were written by John.1 John was much larger than the other two and was written for a more general audience, and so this is the ordering you would see when a canon was being assembled. (Please note that I’m not suggesting the church chose the canon, but the church did recognize the canon and assembled what they recognized in a way that seemed orderly.)
Keep in mind too that 3 John 2was written to guarantee the believer’s financial/material filthy rich overabundance and to ensure that no believer ever has a sniffle.
There are times I think preachers shouldn’t be allowed to read the Bible. It twists their mind! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I agree with some of your stuff here but not the comments in bold. When people do not have the guts to think for themselves they are robots, voluntarily so.I do not agree with a ‘conspiracy theory’ it WAS A PLAN!Men pushed women in the late 40’s-50’s to work a 40 hour week then come home and cook, clean and have babies while they relaxed after work.I saw it, when visiting my friends houses. Both parents just come in from an 8 hour day in the mill. Dad in his rocker, mama fixing supper, washing the dishes, straightening the house then she brings the king a beer while the tough guy he is still relaxing in the rocker.But to clarify, I do not doubt a lot of the %’s are true that the guy gives in his speech, BUT, like salvation, it is up to a man to be a man. If men want to fill the role that they placed a woman in years ago, it is their problem.WAyne, I think it is like ‘global warming and climate change.’ I am a firm believer that the weather is going through a normal cycle formed since the beginning. The cycle of women reaching pinnacles they never have is threatening to men, those facts are here to stay, ima thinking. The boys had better get used to it, and put on big boy britches. Men being victims ain’t gonna play too well. We don’t even have a woman as head Bishop yet!!!! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Man, wouldn’t it be terrible to serve a God Whose Name you couldn’t even spell out???
Re: Man, wouldn’t it be terrible to serve a God Whose Name you couldn’t even spell out???
Jesus is my Sabbath rest. I celebrate him 24-7. But thanks anyway________________
Re: Shabbat Shalom Everyone
Re: Blessings
Really pastor, where? Please, I’m interested in all ur verses that point to that, if 1 is in Acts please study it out before u say it😉. I’m only interested because there are 10 Words/Commandments, not 9 😇Again, Shabbat Shalo________________Ps 122:6
So Y’shua being the Sabbath rest, changes the day? & I’m sorry skeptic, G-d has set aside one day Holy to Himself Gen 2:1-3, and it is the only day He named, Shabbat. & It is a *Sign* between me and you forever throughout your generations Ex 31. When does the generation end________________Ps 122:6
I was going to post to let you know your Ox is in the ditch , then I realized you wouldn’t see this today. No ms krista, you don’t see that the ox in the ditch could be seen as a problem? ok. & I’m just curious, why would you want to say it to me today for, I don’t have a proble________________Ps 122:6
but His name isn’t God________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
Btw pastor, just a thought, do u have a scripture that says celebrate the risen L-rd on the 1st day of the week? Or how about anyone________________Ps 122:6
ISA: Here you go: And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight, (Acts 20:7).Of the ten commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were restated in the New Testament. (Six in Matt. 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Rom. 13:9, coveting. The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Mark 2:27says, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. In other words, God established the Sabbath as a rest for His people, not because He needed a break, but because we are human and need a time of rest to focus on God. The Sabbath was part of the Law. To stay in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished.But with Jesus’ atonement, we no longer are required to keep the Law as a means for our justification. The requirements of the Law were fulfilled in Christ. We now have rest from the Law. We now have Sabbath, continually.The New Testament gives ample evidence that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement. Romans 14:5-6says One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. The first day of the week is Sunday, and this is the day the people gathered. But according to Paul – you can worship any day – in fact, we should worship every day! Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come, (1 Cor. 16:1-2).Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday, the first day of the week and it is that day the Galatians were to set money aside for collections. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide. Does this verse apply to Christians today? I think so!In the second century, they referred to Sunday as “the Lord’s Day.†The New Bible Dictionary says regarding the term, ‘The Lord’s Day’ in Rev. 1 This is the first extant occurrence in Christian literature of te kuriake hemera. The adjectival construction suggests that it was a formal designation of the church’s worship day. As such it certainly appears early in the 2nd century (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, 1. 67).In many churches today, the term The Lord’s Day is used to designate Sunday, the same as it was in the second century.
I was going to post to let you know your Ox is in the ditch , then I realized you wouldn’t see this today. No ms krista, you don’t see that the ox in the ditch could be seen as a problem? ok. & I’m just curious, why would you want to say it to me today for, I don’t have a problem I just assumed you couldn’t go on Acts on Saturday, due to your Judaism.
I was going to post to let you know your Ox is in the ditch , then I realized you wouldn’t see this today. No ms krista, you don’t see that the ox in the ditch could be seen as a problem? ok. & I’m just curious, why would you want to say it to me today for, I don’t have a problem Here’s why I think those on Acts who try to teach Judaism or any other religion be excused from Accelerate. Judaism tried to undermine Paul, much like you do. So in Galatians, it tells us what to do with those who teach Judaism to a group of Christians.Galatians 1:6-9( KJV ) 6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. One of the definitions of ‘accursed means ‘Banned.thus….well, you know the rest.
I was going to post to let you know your Ox is in the ditch , then I realized you wouldn’t see this today. No ms krista, you don’t see that the ox in the ditch could be seen as a problem? ok. & I’m just curious, why would you want to say it to me today for, I don’t have a problem Here’s why I think those on Acts who try to teach Judaism or any other religion be excused from Accelerate. Judaism tried to undermine Paul, much like you do. So in Galatians, it tells us what to do with those who teach Judaism to a group of Christians.Galatians 1:6-9( KJV ) 6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. One of the definitions of ‘accursed means ‘Banned.thus….well, you know the rest. 🤔, Well krista, your ignorance just shows how far the faith has slid into something else. The Bible u read out of is a Jewish Book, ur faith is a Jewish faith, our Savior is the King of the Jews, our Savior was a Rabbi. Our faith has been westernize, another word for it is hellenized. That’s the removal of G-ds Way & replace by a Greek mindset, way which happens to be the story of HanukkahYour quotation of Galatians chapter one is correct, but not to what I’m saying, I’m not changing anything, I’m not speaking against the Gospel of repentance, if you read what I say I’m all for the Gospel of repentance, for all of us.We all can get off track, isn’t that what pastors do, try to put people back on the track that they’ve come off of? Please, what Judaism have I spoken of that Y’shua didn’t speak of, or Paul? What Jewish Traditions am I trying to teach everybody to follow________________Ps 122:6
Well thank you pastor…but we have a problem, u used Acts 20:7. The problem here is it doesn’t say what you think it’s saying, watch. The word week in greek is mistranslated, the word is Sabbaton-Sabbath in the Strong’s 4521. Now let’s read that verse again; Upon the first day of the Sabbath…& The 10 Words are in affect Forever pastor, Y’shua taught on them in Matt 22:36-40; Y’shua said love G-d with all ur heart (1st 5 of 10) & love ur neighbor as urself (last 5 of 10). The verses u point out not speaking of the Sabbath was because He was dealing with that person with the last 5 of the 10 Words. Mark 2:27-28; man was made to rest on the Sabbath, as G-d did Gen 2;1-3. Vs 28 we rest Y’shua on the Sabbath day, because He is our rest. We keep the Sabbath as He did, & when we do that, we are testifying, bring witnesses(2or3) to the world that our G-d created everything and rested on this day. It is the only day that G-d set aside Holy to Himself before He made any Covenant with man, and is the only day He named, ShabbatThere is no verse in the Old Testament that says keep the Shabbat so that you have favor with G-d. He did say in Ex 31that it is an Everlasting Covenant 15-16, & it is a *Sign* between me and the children of Israel (Rom 11:17) Forever, for 6 days the L-rd made Heaven and the earth, and the seventh day He *rested* and was refreshed. When we keep the Sabbath day, as He did, we are refreshed even as He was refreshed Ex 24:12. Now that’s a Promise from Almighty G-d, who would turn that down?Again, no Law, Commandments saying we are justified by keeping the Law, that’s not the purpose of the Law. Rom 3:20; therefore by the Deeds of the Law there so no flesh be justified in His sight (outside of Y’shua) for the Law is the Knowledge of sin. Gal 2:16; knowing that a man is **not** justified by the works of the Law…. What Commandments u keep outside of Y’shua is not gonna fly, ur not justified by yourself.Here’s a question, how do you think you’re going to understand the law through the New Testament? Answer: never. You cannot understand the New Covenant until you first understand the first Covenant. & Since everybody likes to throw out the book of Galatians, I encourage everyone to read Psalms 119 and the Book of Deuteronomy before speaking on Galatians. If you do like that you’ll never see the book of Galatians the same again cuz you will have an understanding of the Creators Law/Torah& As to your thoughts in Rom 14:5-6speaking of the Sabbath day, is probably not correct, because the Sabbath was never mentioned, but food is. I have heard this could be connected to a fasting day because food is mentioned. I’m not saying it is, but I know it’s not speaking of the Sabbath day, or it would say. & The Sabbath day has already been established by G-d to keepNow u are half right on 1 Cor 16:1-2, Paul and the others did gather on the first day of the week, but it wasn’t for a day of worship. It dealt with the exchanging of money, and Paul & the others on Shabbat didn’t deal with money, nor do we& In the second century the Catholic Church declared sunday as the L-rd’s Day, they even right in their own books saying G-d gave them the authority to change the Sabbath, and that’s just not true. The Sabbath day is the day G-d set apart after creation Holy to Himself, Himself…. That means it’s His, that’s the L-rds day& Because the Catholic church, and churches today call sunday the L-rd’s day doesn’t change His day. That’s like me saying the World is Flat, is that change the fact that is round ðŸ˜. And the Bible doesn’t say that you have the freedom to call any day the Sabbath day, any day you choose, that means you are your own god & ur way is right. U should read Heb 4, which is a warning for not keeping Shabbat& Rom 6:14; for sin/death (is what’s talked about) shall *not* have dominion over you, for you not under the law (of death Rom 8:2) but under Grace. Let’s use another one, Rom 3:31; do we then make void the Law through faith? **God forbid**, yes, *we establish* the Law. How can something be removed that has been established?& There is no judging here, you presented your side, I presented mine. Let’s let the scriptures speak in Y’shua’s Name amein 😇Shalo________________Ps 122:6
Good G-d!! I just pulled a bradfreeman, I had no clue was that long LOL. Where is Brad________________Ps 122:6
Your flippant use of the phrase above is disturbing. You can take the middle letter out until the cows come home but that’s not respectful in any way. I’m very sorry u feel that way….do u have any comment on what I said to fg minister________________Ps 122:6
Here is the skool: http://www.iccscampus.orgHere is the unrecognized accrediting agency: http://www.joinitaa.com/what_we_do.php
Please name the Christian schools that do not allow prisoners to take classes? They need to be called out for being Pharisees. Please let us know as soon as possible Aaron________________
Please name the Christian schools that do not allow prisoners to take classes? They need to be called out for being Pharisees. Please let us know as soon as possible Aaron.
I’m not sure how to quote on this forum but that last post was pretty funny.
Sounds like it is time for a 4 year assembly. Lol
Ya mean 1 day of gen council, an then 3 1/2 days at Disney, Sea World, an fer some of em a trip to Plymouth, FL, to git a docterate?
Ya mean 1 day of gen council, an then 3 1/2 days at Disney, Sea World, an fer some of em a trip to Plymouth, FL, to git a docterate? I didn’t say that the agenda would be completed in one day. I said that the elections would be over in one day. That will actually allow for more time to work through the agenda, that I expect to be substantial. This general assembly has the potential to be one of the most productive in many years.
Ya mean 1 day of gen council, an then 3 1/2 days at Disney, Sea World, an fer some of em a trip to Plymouth, FL, to git a docterate? I didn’t say that the agenda would be completed in one day. I said that the elections would be over in one day. That will actually allow for more time to work through the agenda, that I expect to be substantial. This general assembly has the potential to be one of the most productive in many years. Interesting. I don’t share your confidence in this assembly’s agenda, or productivity at all. Further, I have not heard anyone else express confidence in a productive assembly, either.What makes you say that, if I may ask________________
Ya mean 1 day of gen council, an then 3 1/2 days at Disney, Sea World, an fer some of em a trip to Plymouth, FL, to git a docterate? I didn’t say that the agenda would be completed in one day. I said that the elections would be over in one day. That will actually allow for more time to work through the agenda, that I expect to be substantial. This general assembly has the potential to be one of the most productive in many years. Interesting. I don’t share your confidence in this assembly’s agenda, or productivity at all. Further, I have not heard anyone else express confidence in a productive assembly, either.What makes you say that, if I may ask?
Ya mean 1 day of gen council, an then 3 1/2 days at Disney, Sea World, an fer some of em a trip to Plymouth, FL, to git a docterate? I didn’t say that the agenda would be completed in one day. I said that the elections would be over in one day. That will actually allow for more time to work through the agenda, that I expect to be substantial. This general assembly has the potential to be one of the most productive in many years. Interesting. I don’t share your confidence in this assembly’s agenda, or productivity at all. Further, I have not heard anyone else express confidence in a productive assembly, either.What makes you say that, if I may ask? Let me just say that I have reason to have confidence that this will be a packed agenda with critical discussion. Some are counting on the fact that many will be like yourself (no personal criticism here. It is your prerogative) and stay at home. That will allow some major issues to pass easily with minimal discussion or debate. I would encourage everyone to make plans to be at this assembly. It is about more than just elections. Thank you for your answer. Respectfully, I’ve heard This Assembly us going to be BIG, you really need to come, a few times before. I expect an agenda filled with special orders of the day, reports, updates, etc. I expect a measure requiring one of our Executive Committee members to be from outside the US. I expect some report, paper, or other presentation on women in ministry. The last Assembly had 2 items of substance on the agenda. I can’t imagine this one will be different. As of now, I’m not going. If the agenda is as urgent as you imply, when it comes out, I’ll consider it. Thanks again________________
Every GA, there is a change presented which is little more than a back-door effort to change the credentialing process as it pertains to women. The voice of the previous GC is ignored, and yet another vote is brought to the floor. I expect this year will be no different________________
You’re just skeered that you’ll come home with something more than a copy of the agenda. It’s happened before…
Re: skinnybishop
Preach. :________________
Well since you weren’t trying too hard, God musta had to use an ass! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
God did.
Glad you liked it. Rosebrough is an LCMS guy and a cessationist, so I don’t agree with him about everything, but I do appreciate his ministry in this area. I’ve listened to him quite a bit and he does welcome orthodox Pentecostals as brothers in the faith, even though he personally disagrees with continuationism and the Pentecostal distinctives.
I understand that we’ve been told this idea for 2000 years that we don’t have to keep the Law, but why do u feel it’s wrong? Is Ps 118wrong?I will ask the question again, if G-d says something is good can it ever be bad?… If G-d say something is bad can it ever be good? & Deepening on ur answer, how can u say it’s wrong to keep Torah? Because if it’s right, it always has to be rightNow if u want to make ur case that u don’t have to keep the Law, take ur best shot, but show me in all Texts. People preach Grace vs Law all the time, & when they do that they say keeping Torah is wrong & makes a mockery of Y’shua…Making a mockery of Y’shua happens when we keep sinning, breaking the Torah/Law😶. Which like said Y’shua came & died for us breaking the Law..________________Ps 122:6
Okay, maybe not absolute proof, but almost….Where did God ever command His people to not spell out the name God, but instead to write it as G-d?Nowhere. It’s done because…wait for it…it’s a JEWISH PRACTICE.If you can’t even WRITE His Name, then how do you CALL on His Name? Do you leave out a syllable, etc.?That’s what irks the living daylights out of me. If you came here and you said you thought we should embrace some Jewish practices, I would be happy to hear you out. But when I see this faux Judaism, this attempt to be as Jewish as the Jews, so to speak, it’s a massive turnoff. Because I can assure you that I will not be writing God as G-d. Further, I will use the English version of Jesus’ Name. It’s worked really good for me so far?Tell me this: If the law cannot save you, but only Jesus can, then what’s the deal? When Jesus tells us that on the two commandments hang ALL the Law and the Prophets, why do we need to do anything else?(Matthew 11:13KJV) For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.(Matthew 22:40
If true, it is a sorry state of affairs of how to get donations…… ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Yep________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
For the record We have been married 61+ years, Our parents, brothers and sisters over 50 years. I thought my family would never experience it, but I have seen both sons and their ex wives hearts’ BREAK as their lives fell apart. If your family has not been touched by divorce you are blessed beyond measure! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Some of the news reports about them are just crazy. Like trying to say she slapped his hand away and wouldn’t hold his hand. Blows my mind…Divorce is heartbreaking and not necessarily the easy way out. The grace of God has kept us these 40 years.Please pray for a friend of mine who is in the ministry whose wife left him almost a year ago. He is heartbroken and really struggling________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
It is hard to imagine the DOUBLE heart break. Most jobs are not effected by divorce, the ministry is another ball of wax! Praying here. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I personally fear the implications of a trade war. The Smoot Hawley trade act of 1930 comes to mind as a major catalyst in the global depression.
I will not be celebrating the Feast of Passover. I will be focused on Jesus the Passover Lamb, who was slaughtered as the permanent and eternal atonement for my sin. Passover was a shadow of things that were to come; now, the glorious reality of Passover is found in Christ!I hope you enjoy your observance of Passover. Scripture says that one esteems one day as better than another, while another observes every day alike. The one who observes the day observes it in honor of the Lord, and Scripture commands those who do not observe to not despise those who do observe.
By no means dave will I judge anyone, no sir, no thank you. I guess the question I have, is why wouldn’t people want to keep Passover? Y’shua said this in the N.T. do this (Passover) in **rememberance** of Me, Luke 22:14-20& others in the Gospels. Sha’ul, Paul says, let us *keep* this Feast, Passover in 2 Cor 5:7-8=Ex 12:11-13. Heb 11:28; through faith he *kept* the Passover…..I mean, that’s NT, from the mouth of our Savior-Messiah & from Paul, living Lev 23. Paul, the writer of Hebrews says keep the Passover, this is after Messiah’s death & Resurrection. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word will be established…& I just want to point out Romans 14:5about one man steam esteems a day above another… 14:1 talks about people that are weak in the faith. 14:6; he that regards the day, regards it unto the L-rd…. keeping Passover s into the L-rd dave, I not understand why u used this yo hold ur position not to keep Passover, because finish the verse; and he that regards *not* the day to the L-rd he does *not* regard it. James 4:17; therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sinWhy do you think I’m here dave, talking about these things to you and to everybody else? This is where the L-rd place me for a season. & I care for each and everyone here. Before you dismiss something, you should fully study out the matter and be solid on it and I’ll text you the Bible. This is a powerful and great time wonderful, the time we get things right with G-d and man. That’s a picture of the ten Words the first 5 are to G-d last 5 are to man2 Cor 7:8-11; for though I made you sorry with the letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same letter has made you sorry, though it but for a season 9; now I Rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that you sorrowed to repentance: for you were made sorry after a G-dly manner, that you might receive damage by us and nothing10; for Godly sorrow works repentance to Salvation not to be repented of but the sorrow of: the world works death 11 for behold this self same thing, that you sorrowed after a G-dly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yes, what clearing of yourselves, yes, what indignation, yes, what fear, yes, what vehement desire, yes, what zeal, yes, what Revenge in all things you have approved yourselves to be clear in this matte________________Ps 122:6
“I’m not going to judge anyone who doesn’t..:â€Then you proceed to do that for several paragraphs. You explicitly called it sin.
No sir, that’s absolutely wrong, I didn’t call that sin dave, I gave you a scripture. I’m just saying go learn about something before you throw it out. Just remember this is what G-d Said for His people to do, not me. If you don’t want to do that, that’s up to youI just gave you, just 3 New Testament verses speaking of the Passover is still being observed. You say your new testament Christian, why wouldn’t you want to learn about that then if the New Testament apostles are still keeping it? I would think all new testament Christians would want to hold fast to the New Testament, New Covenant & do what it says, do what Messiah said, & since Paul is so highly exalted, do what he did. 1Cor 11:1; be followers of me, as I am a follower of Messiah. That’s discipleship, imitatio________________Ps 122:6
Do you believe those who do not observe the day do not observe it in honor of the Lord?Do you respect the strength of their faith as they are commanded to respect the weakness of yours?
Remember, these are the Feasts of the L-rd, these are not Jewish feasts, or Jewish customs, or Jewish traditions. These are His, our Creators Appointed Times/FeastsJust ask yourself, why wouldn’t Christians want to do this if it’s still being done in the New Covenant / New Testament________________Ps 122:6
I believe those who don’t honor or observe Passover is because they don’t know that they have to do it. Because they have been taught the opposite that Messiah has fulfilled it and removed it and that’s not true as the New Testament clearly speaksAnd this coincides with the false teaching that the Law is removed. This is something that the L-rd is going to have to remove the veil over Christians eyes about. because for 2,000 years the message has been perverted. it’s clearly in His hands. But man has to seek for His Righteousness and he shall be filled… Righteousness is His Torah Deuteronomy 6:25You talk about a weakness in the faith being something that we should all caudal, shouldn’t we be helping people get strong in the L-rd in teaching the Truth of G-d and who He is and what he’s asked for his people to do and look like? Was that Y’shua’s message? Was that John the Baptist message? Was that the apostles message? No, it wasn’t. Matt 28:19-20; go you therefore into all the world and raise up disciples…..________________Ps 122:6
See, you don’t like it when someone points out the Truth of scriptures to you. I believe you’re being convicted by the Lord God about this matter. Why don’t you study out the Passover dave, see if you really do the study if you come out with that same mindset. I guarantee if you do it in prayer and a real study you won’t have that conclusion no moreU think Messiah gave you freedom for not keeping the Passover, or His Commandments, or his Law’s? The Creator of the whole world and universe would never give you that kind of freedom, that’s the freedom of the world, because they don’t keep it eitherWho’s family are u in? 1Kings 18:21; … How long have you been between two opinions? If the L-rd be G-d, follow Him: but if ba’al then follow him….You got to see dave, I am not against yo________________Ps 122:6
I’m sure you do believe that, but you’re as deceived about that as you are everything else.Look — the Bible is clear. Some people observe the day. Others esteem all days alike. The former is not to judge the latter, and the latter is not to despise the former.This is the clear commandment of Scripture. It is the commandment of the Lord Jesus. The Lord said that whoever received those he sent received Him. The commandment of the Apostle Paul in this matter is the commandment of Christ.I am genuinely happy for you if you celebrate the feast with a Christ-centered focus. That is your right and liberty in Christ (if indeed you are in Christ). I do not despise you, and I rejoice if your celebration helps you rejoice in Christ.
I’m sure you do believe that, but you’re as deceived about that as you are everything else.Look — the Bible is clear. Some people observe the day. Others esteem all days alike. The former is not to judge the latter, and the latter is not to despise the former.This is the clear commandment of Scripture. It is the commandment of the Lord Jesus. The Lord said that whoever received those he sent received Him. The commandment of the Apostle Paul in this matter is the commandment of Christ.I am genuinely happy for you if you celebrate the feast with a Christ-centered focus. That is your right and liberty in Christ (if indeed you are in Christ). I do not despise you, and I rejoice if your celebration helps you rejoice in Christ.Yet you refuse to follow the command directed to you: not to judge those who do not observe the day, but esteem all days alike. Umm, dave, I’m not judging u, I’m speaking of scriptures, and asking why you think you don’t have to keep it, that’s not judging. But I’ve heard of this throughout my walk almost 20 years now if I bring up the Torah, laws of G-d I’m always accused of judging, & and that’s ridiculous. It’s just people don’t want to be obedient, that’s Rom 8the flesh lusts against the spirit. Our flesh doesn’t want to be obedient to Commandments, man doesn’t want to be told what to doAnd if you’re happy for me keeping Passover in a Messiah center Way, which is the only way to keep it, since the whole Feast is centered all around the death and resurrection of Messiah. You said you wanted to focus on the death and resurrection of Messiah, 1st Cor 5:8; let us keep this Feast, u said you rejoice with me celebrating this Feast, so celebrate it with me 😀You really haven’t acknowledged anything I’ve said about this in the New Testamen________________Ps 122:6
Do you believe someone is disobedient and following the lusts of their flesh if they do not observe Passover? I can’t answer that, I’m not G-d, but you can go and read what He says about it. What is disobedience dave________________Ps 122:6
I read what He said: Don’t despise those with weak faith, and don’t pass judgment on those with strong faith.
I read what He said: Don’t despise those with weak faith, and don’t pass judgment on those with strong faith.If you can’t wish well to those who choose not to observe the day, then you are rebelling against the commandment of God. That’s just all there is to it. Shalom dave, just pointing something out, I was just wondering if you see how you worded this. Are you saying you’re weak in the faith? Because I don’t despise anybody, G-d pulled me out of sin & knowing nothing. He has put things in me to show others, didn’t Messiah Commandments to do this in Matt 28?And then you said, we shouldn’t pass judgement on those with strong faith 🤔. I’m confused dave, which are u? & U said it in the next verse, if I can’t wish well to **those who **choose** **not** to observe the day**… That’s not weakness, that’s a choice. So how am I rebelling against G-d’s Commandment?Rom 8:7-8; because the carnal mind is enmity *against* G-d, for is not subject to the Law of G-d neither indeed can be 8; so then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Why? Because the flesh doesn’t want to be told what to do, we want to do what we think is right. Vs 13; for if you live after the flesh, you shall die, but if you **through** the Spirit (Rom 7:14) do mortify the *deeds of the body*, you shall liv________________Ps 122:6
To celebrate Passover this year as a **remembrance** of Messiah Y’shua’s death and Resurrection? The whole Seder (Order) meal is the picture of the death & resurrection of Y’shua. Out of the mouth of our Savior Y’shua He said, do this (Passover) in **rememberance** of Me Luke 22:19. Behold the Lamb of G-d that takes away the sin (leaven) of the world Luke 1:29In the Feast of the Passover there is a book we read out of called the Haggadah, which means the telling. We tell the story every year, every Passover in **remembrance** of what Messiah Y’shua did for us. It is also the story of how G-d delivered His people from bondage, sin, Egypt. & That’s our storyThere are a lot of verses in the New Testament for Passover observance: Matt 26, Like 22, Acts 12:3-4, Lk 2:4+Jn 5:1, 6:4. He is the Lamb Jn 1:29, He is the Matzah Matt 26:26, His blood-grape juice(it’s not fermented) Matt 26:28, etc.In Ex 12:15; 7 days shall you eat Unleavened bread (Matzah) even the first day **you shall put away** leaven out of your houses, for whoever eats leavened bread from the first day until the 7th day, that soul shall be cut off from Y’sreal.At this time, we start buying less & less breads so when Passover arrives, it’s alot easier. As we go through our houses looking for leaven to get rid of it (this is where spring cleaning came from) it’s also a time to look at ourselves, clean up our shortcomings and falls. Leaven in the Bible refers to sinMatt 16:6-12; take heed and Beware of the leaven (sin) of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees vs 11. Luke 12:1; … beware you of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. Why do we have to get the leaven out of our lives? Gal 5:9; A little leaven leavens the whole lump. We are supposed to be the body of Messiah, UnleavenedLeaven can represent pride, puffed up people, hypocrisy, sins basically, we need to get it out. There are 3 types of Leaven. 1. Tzior – that was leavens, the starter lump 2. Chametz – that which is already leaven like bread, cakes, cookies Etc & the 3rd definition for leaven is; an element that produces and altering or transforming influence. That’s what yeast does in breads, beers, wines, it causes an alternating or transforming effect and what it’s used for. I’m sure everyone can see where that’s going with sin in people’s lives and how important it is to get it out1Cor 5:8; let us keep this Feas________________Ps 122:6
Talk about a revival, imagine, if people just taught about getting the chametz, leaven out of our houses examining ourselves @ the same time in prayer to G-d about getting the leaven, sin out of their lives???G-d would move tremendously 😋, any thoughts on just this one small aspect of Passover________________Ps 122:6
At SPWC we are NOT Torah observant.We do not participate in the Old testament feasts.We do not attempt to keep the Law God gave to Moses.Why, in spite of these truths did the Lord Jesus Christ bless us with such an outstanding revival this week?Why did He honor us by saving, restoring, blessing and baptizing in the Holy Spirit all these folks.1John 4:1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
May be some manipulation, then when you have several millionaires attend that pay tithes it does look out of proportion. Unless you have a inside knowledge it is hard to say.Probably mixing apples and mangoes here. I know churches with a BIG bus ministry is high in attendance and low in income from my area. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
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That is easier to do when you have a single billionaire who gave 50% of that. Don’t get me wrong, I celebrate the favor on the church and rejoice with them. I am just saying…not everyone has that kind of dynamic.
Tithe
What really goes to help
Maybe its the word sucking. A better work would be pilgrimage. Standing at the grave and praying to God for anointing is much different from what is reported as laying on the someones grave and drawing (sucking) in their latent (if their is such a thing) anointing.Visiting shires is a tradition that spans millennia in the Christian Church. The question is, even with the new vernacular, is this a practice found in the New Testament Church? Or is this just superstition if carried to the extreme?At least the Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Anglican traditions have better words to describe the practice. Mat
brotherjames, it’s kind of hard to have a discussion with you because you bring so much anger to the table, but I’ll give it a shot.
BJ, what you describe ain’t grave suckin/soakin.
I just checked back to see the responses from this mornings post and scrolled past the pictures again – if she is not a family member, what she is doing strikes me as very disrespectful. If this practice is predicated on Old Testament scriptures, I understood that the Jewish thinking was that graves, and graveyards (cemeteries) were unclean and were best avoided.
I think I’m gonna go to Gaza an soak up Samson’s anointin. I seen a few Philistines I wanna whoop up on.
I think I’m gonna go to Gaza an soak up Samson’s anointin. I seen a few Philistines I wanna whoop up on. Now you know that you’d have to grow your hair out in the Nazarite way. And Bound for Beulah would be preaching at you mercilessly until you got it cut back to a holiness length! All I’m saying is count the cost…. lol Worst of all, he would have to give up his fruit of the vine. I wonder if Nazarites could drink beer and whiskey. OTCP can keep going down to Harzard if that’s the case.
What would you get if you laid on Hugh Hefner’s grave?Don’t the spirits of the dark side join up with people? I think you could make the case for evil spirits joining with you from scripture much easier than getting an anointing from someone who is dead________________
All this ‘grave-sucking†nonsense is, is just warmed over reliquism. Catholics have been doing it for centuries. So incredibly absurd. The seraphim around God’s throne say, “The whole earth is filled with His glory!â€For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, 16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God. 20Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think,
[quote=Quiet Wyatt]All this ‘grave-sucking†nonsense [quote]This is exactly what it is………NONSENSE.An they base it on the dead Israelite who was throwed on Elishas bones an come back to life. If at story applies to us today so does everthing else in the Old Testament. So, lets commence:1. Stopping the sun fer a few hours.2. Stonin preachers who git it wrong (cf, the preachers who confirmed Todd Bentleys apostleship)3. Lay naked fer a while like Ezekiel (oops, wait, they already doin at in skinny jeans)
Maybe its the word sucking. A better work would be pilgrimage. Standing at the grave and praying to God for anointing is much different from what is reported as laying on the someones grave and drawing (sucking) in their latent (if their is such a thing) anointing.Visiting shires is a tradition that spans millennia in the Christian Church. The question is, even with the new vernacular, is this a practice found in the New Testament Church? Or is this just superstition if carried to the extreme?At least the Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Anglican traditions have better words to describe the practice. MatPS I wonder how family members of the deceased ministers feel about people laying on the graves of their loved ones? I like this comment, makes much sense! I do not like the term ‘grave sucking’. Surely that is not the term originally used to describe this ‘crazy’ assertion of soaking up an anointing etc. But if such a thing is real NBF has a point about ‘evil spirits also. Never considered that angle. I sure get an education here on Acts. Thanks. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Seems to me if this works we would have a lot of WORLD changing folks running around.Sorta like all those folks in the hospital just waiting for that person who has the GIFT of laying on of hands to healing.Sorta like all those ‘poor’ folk who plant a seed in someone else’s garden (GIVING TO GET) and NEVER get to harvest, cause the person they sent the seed to planted it in his/her own garden. I do wish we had more ministers with the gift of presenting Jesus simply and plain. And that with the Earnest desire to see folk saved just because Jesus said so. Sorta like Billy Graham Yeah, I do miss him, he was one of a kind________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Is this thread the reason why brotherjames was banned? I sure hope not!!!
Nope.
Nope. brotherjames posted in another thread that he was leaving the forum for good. Yes he did say that but did you have to ban him before he left? Maybe he was just upset at the moment & said those words out of frustration.You do have a way of frustrating people Dave ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
That wasn’t the only thing he said in the post, nor was it why he was banned.
Why not just reach out to him?I saw what he wrote & it sure didn’t seem worth being banned over – I think it was more of a personal thin________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
You missed Holy Land experience or is it out of business? WE drive past it a couple times a month but with the continual I-4 maintenance it is hard to take your eyes off the road.That highway maintenance is an entertaining experience all by itself! Hopefully some of it will be finished by Church time!Disney! Why didn’t the leadership think of Vacations years ago when selecting, Memphis, Birmingham, Indianapolis and Dallas.Oh there was the Zoo in Dallas, remember it well. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Holy Land Experience still there. I figured most preachers have been to the real thing – and this would be a let down________________
You forgot one a the most important Disney things to do, NB. Well, it ain’t technically Disney, other than that its just entertainment.
No it won’t.You don’t get to Disney much, do you________________
No it won’t.You don’t get to Disney much, do you? You must not be around many fellers toutin unaccredited and milled docterates, do you? Some of em can’t even put 3 grammatically correct sentences together in a logical paragraph. But they a Dr.
No it won’t.You don’t get to Disney much, do you? You must not be around many fellers toutin unaccredited and milled docterates, do you? Some of em can’t even put 3 grammatically correct sentences together in a logical paragraph. But they a Dr.Just like lookin at Mickey an Minnie, ya can’t help but smile. Nicely done OTCP. That made me smile.Find me at the Assembly – and let me hang out with you so I can hear a few of those Doctorates being touted. I might join you in doctor shaming them…especially if they are on the platform________________
If he’s preaching the Word of God on the essentials and your kids are engaged and hearing the gospel and growing in the faith, it’s hard to see how you could go wrong.You might want to ask him about his views on continuationism vs. cessationism. Many baptists nowadays are open to or affirming of continuationism. They are just wary of Pentecostalism in general because of its association with hypercharismaticism, as you observed. If he affirms continuationism, you may find there is actually not a lot of difference between you and him on that issue. And if there is, unity on the essentials and a family that is growing in the faith should always be the first focus, in my opinion.
Isn’t it sad that it has come to this? ________________
I’ll think it will be just fine.You know my own experience attending a UPC church for 2 years and the wonderful fellowship I felt there despite our differences.I also, in the past, have been able to pastor a Baptist fellowship with those over me knowing fully well that I’m very Pentecostal at heart. So I think sometimes there is enough in common to make things work and allow us all to grow.
________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Re: no offense intended
I feel the same way. I do not see how I would benefit any church at this point. I really am trying. After I finish school; things will look up, I hope. But I cannot wait another year. Now I can barely walk due to a knee injury. I’ve never felt so useless as I do right now________________
Brother, I have to come back to your comment. In the past 5-6 years, you are the FIRST, pastor or laity to make such a comment to me. I have tried hard the past few years to make pastors and others understand what this is doing to me psychologically, but nobody gets it. They just encourage me to forget it all and just stay busy in the church, but then don’t understand why I don’t give much in the offering. They just cannot seem to be able to understand how low I feel as a man not adequately providing for my own. I have always THOUGHT what you stated, but seemed to be the only one with that opinion________________
Re: no offense intended
Well you ain’t useless, RS. You’re bein challenged, fought an even tested. Look man, you ain’t useless. This is a test. It is only a test. An you gonna pull through. Yep, family first. If I had to go to a Baptist church cause no others was readily available, I would go. Hang in there. Hang tough. You gonna make it. Thank you, brother________________
Brother, I have to come back to your comment. In the past 5-6 years, you are the FIRST, pastor or laity to make such a comment to me. I have tried hard the past few years to make pastors and others understand what this is doing to me psychologically, but nobody gets it. They just encourage me to forget it all and just stay busy in the church, but then don’t understand why I don’t give much in the offering. They just cannot seem to be able to understand how low I feel as a man not adequately providing for my own. I have always THOUGHT what you stated, but seemed to be the only one with that opinion.
Brother, I have to come back to your comment. In the past 5-6 years, you are the FIRST, pastor or laity to make such a comment to me. I have tried hard the past few years to make pastors and others understand what this is doing to me psychologically, but nobody gets it. They just encourage me to forget it all and just stay busy in the church, but then don’t understand why I don’t give much in the offering. They just cannot seem to be able to understand how low I feel as a man not adequately providing for my own. I have always THOUGHT what you stated, but seemed to be the only one with that opinion. you will be happier as a man if, your family is doing better financially and you can get back into your own home. I’m sure there is some sort of work you can do with a bad knee. Citibank, RDI collections are some companies in our area that have tons of sit down jobs. My son works in the college library to make money. we tell our church members that God loves a cheerful giver and if you are not giving with a cheerful heart, keep the money in your pocket. I know that will get me in trouble with a lot of pastors but, you have a family to take care of and you have your mental state to get in order.
Re: no offense intended
Brother, I have to come back to your comment. In the past 5-6 years, you are the FIRST, pastor or laity to make such a comment to me. I have tried hard the past few years to make pastors and others understand what this is doing to me psychologically, but nobody gets it. They just encourage me to forget it all and just stay busy in the church, but then don’t understand why I don’t give much in the offering. They just cannot seem to be able to understand how low I feel as a man not adequately providing for my own. I have always THOUGHT what you stated, but seemed to be the only one with that opinion. how much more schooling do you have? how much time do you spend on school work? Is this an on-line degree? what will you have a degree in. I average 5 hours a day, 7 days a week on school work. I will graduate in May of 2019. My Masters will be in history________________
This is tragic, and I’m really sorry to hear it. This is the fruit of the theology that you can give and serve your way out of suffering. Instead of coming along side our brothers and sisters and supporting them, loving them, praying for them, helping them, and encouraging them — we just wonder why they’re not following the magic formulas that will get them out of their troubles. Yes, this has been an eye opening experience as to what the majority of pastors and churches seem to believe about financial trials. Like you said, it’s give and serve your way out of suffering________________
[quote=wayne][quote=Resident Skeptic][quote=wayne]but the Baptist church is a secondary need. Sounds to me like you need to tend to your financial state first. God, Family and then Church.[/quote]Brother, I have to come back to your comment. In the past 5-6 years, you are the FIRST, pastor or laity to make such a comment to me. I have tried hard the past few years to make pastors and others understand what this is doing to me psychologically, but nobody gets it. They just encourage me to forget it all and just stay busy in the church, but then don’t understand why I don’t give much in the offering. They just cannot seem to be able to understand how low I feel as a man not adequately providing for my own. I have always THOUGHT what you stated, but seemed to be the only one with that opinion.[/quote]how much more schooling do you have? how much time do you spend on school work? Is this an on-line degree? what will you have a degree in.[/quote]Resident Skeptic, know that God sees your heart and pain. You worked for many years in the ministry without sufficient pay, benefits, honor and glory. WHAT A WASTE IF THE REWARDS OF THIS LIFE WERE THE END OF IT ALL. Mt. 16 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. God wants to take care of you and your family’s needs on this earth but that pales compared to His eternal rewards.
I couldn’t wait to get my driver’s license. I then drove three families to church every service. I loved every mile of it, just to get behind the wheel! LOL ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
but honestly it would be for church trips more than picking up for church. I think you are spot on, the entertainment value of Sunday School and Children’s Church is pretty much surpassed by sitting at home and watching YouTube/ Netflix/ video games. After many years of under performing, we finally cancelled our Sunday School program last year________________
Back in the 80s or so, Larry McDaniel was THE guru of Bus Ministry. A couple of years back, I contacted him and asked something similar (e.g., is bus ministry kind of dated, should it still be used, etc.?). He told me that if he were starting a church today, he would make bus ministry a top priority.
In our very small town (pop 2200, with the nearest town to us being 20 miles away), we still drive a church van to pick up between 10-15 kids Sunday morning. We sometimes have to make two trips on Wednesday nights, since one of our vans is broken down and we don’t have funds available to repair it. The funny thing is, so far as I know (I have been here five years), our church has never really pushed the bus ministry here. Whenever I have mentioned going door to door and seeing if we can start picking up more kids, our children’s ministries leader has appeared frightened by the prospect of more kids. We are a bit short on space and on volunteers on Wednesdays especially.
Admiral QW and that is how I see it from the outside. I forget the vans, very logical. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Thanks, Brother. I know a couple folk who feel the same. I am glad to hear it re-enforced. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Most churches I know of have no problem finding people who want to go on short term mission trips. However, the lack of volunteers and money for gas (airfare seems to get covered) seems to be common problems that hinder bus ministries.Is it God trying to do a new thing in this decade? Perhaps this is a necessary cultural adaptation for this generation? Do you think maybe it could be a good idea to let people wanting to go on a missions trip first develop a heart for souls and volunteer for children’s church, youth ministry or a bus ministry in his or her own Jerusalem before flying to the uttermost parts of the world?
You don’t just need buses or gas, you need committed people who will pastor the families on their bus. I think several of the reasons bus ministry has gone by the wayside in many places are mentioned in this thread.Some people also do not want to bus in children of a different race. Sad, but true…If you have a viable children’s ministry, there are always children who are hungry for the love and attention that can be found in most churches. Some of them lead lives that are void of much love. You have to have people in place that have a heart for that, also.When we were active in children’s ministry 20 years ago, there was also a concept introduced of taking church to the children rather than bussing them in. With the right team, this can also be very successful________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
If you will work the field, you can still bring in a boat load of children. I tell Pastors all the time, if they will go after the children their church will grow. Especially, with all the addicts and parents who are not involved in truly parenting their children. Our church still goes into the neighborhoods to pick up children. We have a very large church in our area and the majority of their attendance is kids from the area.
I just know you guys were dedicated to the kids. And as WAyne has mentioned many kids are looking for love. Crying for love. When we did an evening VBS (Or Children’s Crusade) I preferred the title VBS. Church families would volunteer their yard for a public ‘show’ program for kids, to do some local PR and ads for the VBS. As we worked with the kids, you would have been blind not to see they needed love and a hug. I truly enjoyed that ministry. I spent a few years trying to make up for the ones I lost outside HIS will. I loved to see them drinking inthe Bible stories so familiar to CHURCH KIDS, but unknown to them. PS:m The name VBS sits better with many no-church families than ‘Kids Crusade’. To some that sounds like a ‘brain washing’ course. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I just know you guys were dedicated to the kids. And as WAyne has mentioned many kids are looking for love. Crying for love. When we did an evening VBS (Or Children’s Crusade) I preferred the title VBS. Church families would volunteer their yard for a public ‘show’ program for kids, to do some local PR and ads for the VBS. As we worked with the kids, you would have been blind not to see they needed love and a hug. I truly enjoyed that ministry. I spent a few years trying to make up for the ones I lost outside HIS will. I loved to see them drinking inthe Bible stories so familiar to CHURCH KIDS, but unknown to them. PS:m The name VBS sits better with many no-church families than ‘Kids Crusade’. To some that sounds like a ‘brain washing’ course. We called ours Family Crusades & tried to get families to come, rather than dropping off their kids. This would also introduce the whole family to the church.We had one church up in the mountains of NC that would start around 5:30 and bring in several van loads of kids for each service. It was a small church but they packed that building out! I always loved seeing so many kids there.We did puppets at an outdoor event at our church back in August, the first one we’d done in years due to John’s health. A young guy that is friends with our pastor came from over an hour away & brought his girls with him. Turns out he went to a crusade of ours probably 20 years ago & still remembered an illusion we did! I was shocked he remembered us.It was probably the worst puppet show we’ve ever done, for a variety of reasons, but the kids still loved it and we had a lady that wanted us to come to her church. Amazing, huh? ________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
And all we need is a little time and a few things to draw their attention so we can tell them about Jesus________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
And all we need is a little time and a few things to draw their attention so we can tell them about Jesus!
I agree with that 100%! But in whut this time? ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I heard John MacArthur bein interviewed on this very topic only a few months ago. He said no such thing exists. We gotta find a moniker fer ya, Dave, one at specifically fits the bill.
It’s true in a sense. There’s a gulf between big-R Reformed and little-R reformed. Big R will find fellowship in the gospel with continuationists like me (most of the time, J-Mac might be an exception) and with credobaptists, but don’t properly consider them Reformed, and probably rightly so. So guys like me are little-R reformed. All the soteriology and emphasis on the written Word and historical Christianity, none of the cessationism or paedobaptism. The best label for me would be a reformed continuationist baptist. Alternatively, the church I attend (which shares my views) calls themselves essentially reformed. I like that one too.So far as J-Mac goes, my main problem with him isn’t his cessationism — it’s that he’s a dispensationalist! But that’s another thing I don’t bring up on this forum.
Notice zero responses & only 55 reads as of this post of mine?It appears as though Kids Ministry has become a ‘have to do’ ministry in the church rather than ‘we get to do’ ministry in the local church.Very unfortunate.I often say the health barometer of the church is found in Kids Ministry.If the Kids Ministry is rarely examined & barely funded then it’s probably on it’s last legs …just like the church of that same Kids Ministry.But if a church funds & supports Kids Ministry with constant promotions then the church is usually very lively & growing. Our Kids Ministry starts at the same time as the main worship services. Lot’s of music, visual aids, video lessons & stuff kids like to do.We don’t do the babysit plan where the kids are merely warehoused until the parents get finished up front with the main worship service.Parents are often encouraged to bring their children into the sanctuary in order for their kids to get a good idea of how ‘big church’ operates.New kids usually come out of Kids4Christ (K4C) asking their parents to bring them back next week.Our leadership team places a lot of emphasis on the lessons of the bible, especially from the O.T. so the kids can see both sides of the N.T. church & the lessons we adults grew up on. Personally I love the water balloon fights, chocolate spaghetti wars & water-slide Sundays. All of these events happen after the service & the parents have to bring towels & extra clothes for their munchkins to get cleaned up.The excellent weather here allows for months of warm outdoor fun & fellowship.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
what we do.
We worship together and then transition them to Children’s church one song before preaching.
My church runs the classes throughout the entire worship service. Parents can drop their kids off as soon as they get to church, if they’d like. There’s also a 3 minute pause between the song service and the preaching for parents to take their kids to class, if they’d like to have them in there for the singing and then take them to a classroom for more age-appropriate teaching. Alternatively, parents are welcome to keep their kids in the sanctuary the entire service.The children’s ministry uses The Gospel Project which is a super Christ-centered curriculum. I think there’s a tendency with children’s material to focus on familiarizing kids with the stories of the Bible, which is good, but without centering them on Christ. There’s also a tendency to preach the law alone — for example, the good Samaritan helped those in need, so you should help those in need, but without conveying the necessity of Christ and His power in this process.
I do not know the best way to do it, but I do believe that a child should hear the OLD favorite Bible Stories. In doing some spontaneous Children’s programs now I find 8-12 year olds who actually do not know the Joseph, Sampson, David, 3 Hebrew Children, & etc.it is though someone is afraid that the Law would be taught, LOL.That was written as sort of a joke (in ref to the Law discussions lately). The kids I am talking about are new to church. Their parents never read a good Bible bed time story to them, they were gone working or high. Those kids from the ‘hood’ need the basic GOD stories to underwrite the JESUS miracle stories.A good SS will do this or a GREAT Children’s ministry will do it. I do think putting the kids in front of the ‘Big People’ to sing or repeat memory verses is a must. Also the occasional inclusion in the main worship service.Things have changed, but just looking from the outside, SOME CHURCHES still get it right!We visited RR’s church once and was blown away by a BIG round table discussion, big folk and little folk during the SS hour________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
That’s awesome! How do you approach the topic of kids’ access to the Lord’s table?
Hey, NBF, I got a message for you, too.
He ran for the people & to make America great again & is fulfilling promise after promise. He is reinstituting the Constitution with the last presidents where flushing He stands with Y’sreal, not isis which the last president invented & funded. It would have been the end of America if hillary got in with her liberal ideology which mirrors is lam. People should Google that liberalism and is lam ideology. He doesn’t listen and is not controlled by the elites & he is not a globalist and he stands to make America great again, we’ll see, is off to a great star________________Ps 122:6
Also in the Bible in Luke 6:26it days; Woe unto you, when all men speak well of you…..lol, Trump is not having a problem full feeling that verse, as I don’t have a problem with fulfilling that verse, especially here LOL LO________________Ps 122:6
This is the absolute most important election to watch….since the last one, and until the next one. Don’t wake me up to tell me the results.
________________
Is the election today? ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Yes________________
Good candidate or not – this district should have easily been Republican – Trump won it by 20% – now it is lost.Let’s face it – Republicans have lots of bad candidates and are going to get swept out of office in just a few short months.Reps better figure out what the country wants soon – or it is hello gun confiscation, open borders, obamacare for all, ultra lib Supremes, etc…No way to stop it when they win everything________________
True, but the Dems and media will overplay their hand, and misinterpret this election result. Trump is still popular in this district________________
True, but the Dems and media will overplay their hand, and misinterpret this election result. Trump is still popular in this district. Trump isn’t running in 2018.All the bad candidates are.Trump will only get his democratic agenda passed the next 2 years________________
U.S. House, Pennsylvania, District 18 Percent Candidate Party Votes Winner 49.8% Conor Lamb Dem 113,720 49.6% Rick Saccone GOP 113,079 0.6% Drew Miller Lib 1,378 I see the Libertarian was a spoiler here. OUCH. 641 votes separating the two. I am guessing a recount, but will probably fall on the DEM side. Maybe drew was no spoiler, but the race might have been even closer without him, might have been a tie and they could have settled it with a duel….. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
You don’t see ’em that close too often, that is for sure! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Trump won by 20% a year and a half ago.10% of everyone voting has switched sides?Why?That needs to be answered________________
I am not saying that walking takes the place of your ‘romantic Dinners’ , but they are just as important. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Me and my precious wife love to walk and talk. We have walked similar paths. One of our kids battling alcohol addiction, and another dealing with divorce. We still make time for date nights but I do treasure our walks through the neighborhood. And I do enjoy the talking more than the walking
Love it! You know I would imagine a pastor and his wife walking in the neighborhood where they live or pastor, would also have some great side effects. The wife and I get compliments as we walk. The wife is 80 already I will turn 80 soon. We still hold hands. A lady stopped us the other day and said she loved to see us walk by, it is always a ‘Hallmark Moment’ she said.I always enjoy your comments! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Thanks for some practical advice. I am sure not the person to train pastors but if I could give any advice to a person going to the ministry it would be to prioritize a couple hours a day minimum for God and your spouse. One must be deliberate in setting this time aside first and doing what other things can be accomplished each day.
Hi Larry,Here’s a video on the topic so you can review the evidence and make up your own mind about what Destiny Cards are, and whether or not Bethel has endorsed them:www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wa0Gx386d0It’s a long video, but I encourage you to watch the whole thing so you are able to see all of the evidence available. That will put you in a good position to think about it and make up your mind about whether the evidence is valid, or should be dismissed.
Dave & OTCP
Dave, Is this video endorsed by Bill Johnson? I am not interested in what others teach. If Johnson endorses this practice I want to know about it.OTCP I am not interested in hearing of what others do or teach. If there are videos of Bill Johnson teaching this I want to see them.A drunk has been coming to our church recently, this does not mean we endorse drinking. And we have folks attending our church that have been divorced. We do not endorse divorce. We have those who smoke, we do not endorse smoking. We may even have adulterers, fornicators or liars. We do not endorse this either________________Recorded Sermons @ http://www.pastorwiley.com
Larry — you have a choice in front of you. You can watch the video that was shared and evaluate the evidence and make up your own mind about whether or not this practice is wrong, and whether or not it is a practice Bethel endorses. Or, you can not watch the video, not see or evaluate any evidence, and continue believing whatever you believe now.Choosing to watch the video does not mean choosing to agree with it. It just means choosing to expose yourself to evidence so that you can evaluate it and make up your own mind. However, choosing not to watch the video does mean that you definitely will not see any evidence that may change your mind.
Would you be so kind to share a link with proof that Bethel endorsed Christian Tarot Cards. I am a fan of Bill Johnson but if you can prove that HE, not someone who attends his church is promoting Christian Tarot Cards I will stop watching his videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wa0Gx386d0Bill endorses Kris Vallotton who endorses the Christ Alignment ‘Destiny’ Cards, You probably won’t like the tone of the video because they aren’t Bethel fans. But if you watch the whole video you will see their medium-lead, spirit-consulting, sessions, and the follow-up discussions with those that had their reading and how it made them feel and such (all without the slightest mention of Christ, the Cross, sin, repentance, new-birth, etc..) and make your own conclusion.From Bethel’s site
Ahhhh, ‘them’ dominoes! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I always like a good report! Nice!We need more Good reports, I know they still happen! Good for y’all and the Lord! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Since today is Wednesday I am excited to hear that people are coming out on a Monday and Tuesday night hungry for the things of God. Hb. 11 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
I agree with Cojak & Preacher777 …may God pour out His Spirit on SPWC tonight & every night during this wonderful refreshing.I wish we had more services like what you’ve explained in our state camp-meeting!May the Holy Ghost bless you guys abundantly!!!________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
What does tore it up mean in reference to revival, Andy?Sounds violent/destructive to the ole timer.
tore it up is an expression that is common in our section of the beloved South.It means to do something extremely well.Pastor Cauley ministered the Word extremely well and effectively prayed with folks in the altar on every night. Oh by the way, a young man who had never been to any church before he began to attend here about a year ago.Received Christ a short time after he began to attend here.Was baptized in the Holy Spirit last night.With the accompanying evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gave him the utterance. It’s been really Pentecostal around here this week. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
These are very good words. We do not have a right to exist. We have a mission to advance. At the point where our existence or self-protection trumps the mission, we cross a line that shouldn’t be crossed.
These are very good words. We do not have a right to exist. We have a mission to advance. At the point where our existence or self-protection trumps the mission, we cross a line that shouldn’t be crossed. I’ve been bi-vocational in ministry. What you say captures a legitimate sense. But, it is also true for churches of all sizes. The local church should be very heavily influencing the direction of our fellowship. We should be as effective as possible in mission, globally and in our own communities. It’s all mission. And, when our expenditures are not serving mission well, we should bring attention to those areas to bring health and highest possible effectiveness. Well said! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Home churches
have very low overhead, can be more mission focused, make better disciples (as opposed to church members), along with other benefits as have approximately 20 million christians who have dropped out of church and channeled their energy and resources in viable evangelistic and community service oriented outreach.But such an idea won’t fly in an institutional-minded, self-preserving (but lose you own soul) church________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
Any organization has to constantly Gaurd against losing the mission in the Bureaucracy. Same with the local church. People are less and less about supporting a system unless the system really builds the organization to fulliful the mission________________
Do Pastors push the misison?
If administrative cost are 80% to 85% of the monthly income, can the church be missional?Administrative Cost under control?Pastor’s salary inflated because off of a old church roll?Salaries (minister of music, youth, children and administrative pastor) taking the correct % of the church’s monthly income?
I’m not saying you are wrong, but don’t smaller states tend to be geographically huuuuuuuuuuuge? State land area tends to go up as you go west in the United States, and a lot of those states have relatively low populations considering their land area until you get near the west coast________________
Re: Combining
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Re: Something has to change
As one who pastors in a mission state, I must say that the idea of merging with another huge western state (or states) is a dismal prospect. It is already a six-hour drive for us to the state office, ministers’ meetings, camp meeting, etc.
I watched for years as our state lost its ability to do anything but support the structure. We would always be forced to be reactive, only changing to late. You can only do what is approved by the general assembly or executive committee. It took us 6-8 years to get approval for one change. It costed us our ability to do anything constructive. Even when state leadership was trying to be proactive we were controlled by the system. I gave up trying after 30 years. Watching some of the greatest pastors in the world not have a voice and then they become responsible to pay for the mess or sell assets to pay for the mess. It is my prayer that the COG will one day value the voice of its pastors again and make some changes restoring the ability to have a real Mission. Even after leaving the COG I still love It and want to see it restore Mission, but I personally believe it will only happen if there is a change in the system that puts some power back at state and local level________________
Yes – he was pretty outspoken in his ridicule of those who believe in fairy tales as he put it________________
Oddly enough he was able to live what appeared to be a normal life into his 20’s before the motor neuron disease began to disable him.Like Hawking, Carl Sagan who was about as brilliant as any other, also could not accept creation & died in his early 60’s.I believe God gave Hawking over 50 years, while he was severely disabled, to learn as much about the true Master of the universe as he could, but he chose to embrace a lie.My grandma died of the same disease & God took her home after about 6 years of endurance …she was full of the Holy Ghost & Fire.Hawking was given most of his life to accept God’s existence & I’m afraid all he found was fire w/out God. I often pray that some of these people repented before that final breath & maybe they found forgiveness from God who would gladly accept them if they humbled themselves________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I seldom listened to his theories, nor prognostications. Only God and the soul knows. The soul WILL know, that is for sure. No one can know the working of the soul, mind and brain the last few seconds of a life. But for us humans, his outward life doesn’t hold much promise, but GOD………… DOES!For now our lives go on, Thanks be to God. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Looks like a representative said what WE SAID ABOUT MEETING HIS MAKER – AND THE REP GOT IN TROUBLE________________
If you had been confined to a wheelchair for decades, growing worse every year, do you think that you just might question whether there is a God? Do you think that the unanswered prayers he undoubtedly prayed might have led him to conclude that no one was listening? I mean, even Jesus asked, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?â€I remember when David Wilkerson had to admit that the fiery prophecies of doom and gloom that he had declared…had underestimated the mercy of God. I’m not saying that Hawking went to heaven. I’m simply saying that sometimes God surprises us. Further, we weren’t privy to Hawking’s final moments, thoughts, or prayers.
The video seems to indicate that Hawking said the electronic voice comments in this video at about 3:20 which seem to be theistic in nature, about a higher authority at work so that we and our universe can exist:www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=88158The statistical improbability that life could exists is so enormous that physicists have to deal with it. The video above presents the argument that there could be an infinite or great number of universes as a way of doing away with the staggering statistical improbability of life. A problem I see with that is that random events are independent of one another. If you flip a coin (and if doing so is truly random) two times and get heads, the next flip is not any more likely to be ‘tails’ than previous flips. Assuming we accepted the idea of multiple universes, why would there be statistical dependence between universes? If the big bang kept happening over and over again, would the chances of life occurring after any big bang be affected by what happened in the previous big bang? I do not see these as relevant arguments against the existence of God.I do not know if there are multiple universes, but I do wonder if there is any evidence for them at all, or if the whole thing is just an excuse to believe in an alternate theory when the scientific evidence is stacked up in favor of the existence of God. Why wouldn’t multiverses be considered a ‘fairy tale’? Plenty of comic book and science fiction tales have been manufactured based on this theory. Superheroes and supervillians find ways into alternate universes where they may even have to fight alternative versions of themselves. I have seen him on The Big Bang Theory reruns that seem to play all the time. I haven’t followed the show throughout, but the geeks on the show revere Stephen Hawking, and I wonder if other physicists feel the same way. I do not know much about the details of the field of physics, but he is probably so well known outside of academia for relating existing physics theories to nonacademics in ways that are interesting to them (to some of them). He is probably a celebrity because many people find the idea of a genius in a wheelchair, in a body that can barely function at all to be interesting. There are many other physicists doing this type of work who do not become household names________________
Very glad this person didn’t lose her faith after being exposed to those who believe their superior faith makes them well and have more money than others…and conversely her lack of faith leaves her sick and dying.Those superior ones just haven’t lived long enough yet________________
When you see the best of the best, who had pastored limit churches for the last 30 years of his ministry, die almost penniless, it brings into question that prosperity THEORY! A man who never wasted his nor God’s money, sent money to the mission fields and fed the poor locally. Dad once bought a Buick and felt bad about it when many of his members walked to church, so he traded back down. When he died he & mama lived in a cabin on the Campground and had $750 in the bank and a car we had given him.The prosperity ministers I see would not be worthy to tie his shoes. Of course that is my opinion. I NEVER heard him envy what even some of his fellow ministers had. Dad was a prince among men, but in his mind he was always a peanut farmer and cotton mill worker, spreading the gospel. Repent and be baptized, God is Good!I sure miss him and his simple life. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I’ll bite:m Two ends one Big hole. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
…
Book deal with pathway press or some other company is the only way I can think you can get the notoriety to be voted on. One of the main ways Bryan Cutshall got to denominational power was his book deals. Why do you think general and assistant generals all try to pump out books. It is so when pathway run that full page resource ad in the evangel the book is featured with a face and name of the author.
Centralized government, boy you gotta…………….. never mind. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
No Doc, it doesn’t.We have checks, balances and accountability, our members have RIGHTS!I know this is foreign to Cleveland thinking but it has served us in good stead.Since 1989.New Testament government, Tomlinson searched for it, we have found it. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
Works the same in your church Andy, just on a smaller scale.
Works the same in your church Andy, just on a smaller scale. Not true OTCP… Andy doesn’t have a gun to boardmember’s lively hood if a board member doesn’t vote the way things should vote. Or to use your analogy a board member isn’t shot for turning on a light. If there is a disagreement at his church there is the door and you can respectfully disagree. in the church of God you lose your position, Everything you worked for, You have to chose between your character and feeding your family. Sometimes even following the law isn’t good enough for these scum suckers we have in office.
Sheik, I shoulda knowed you was Lamar Vest postin under a pen name.
Our bylaws give authority to officers and janitorial and maintenance folks for expenditures.Why even I with all of my power can only spend so much before obtaining permission. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
Just a quick observation. Your post seems to be saying that you have in the past believed God leads us through direct personal revelation, and now you are wondering if He even leads His people at all. I believe that is a false dichotomy. Likewise, I believe it is a false dichotomy to propose that one must choose to believe in a God who intervenes and supernaturally delivers according to our expectations and a God from whom you should not expect much in the way of divine intervention.Both total cessationists and full-on continuationists believe God leads His people. You cannot believe the Word of God without also believing that God leads His people. So the question is not whether the Spirit leads God’s people — ALL who are led by the Spirit are sons of God (Romans 8:14) — the question is, what is the means through which He accomplishes this purpose.
Re: Was I living a fantasy?
Sir,I think what you are dealing with, is something all men deal with. When things get to going rough we sit and think, what if? You can continue to second guess all you want but it’s not going to help.Like all men, you are going to have to make the tough decisions and do things that you may not want to do in order to get you and your family back on your feet. God is the same all the time. Does your wife work? What will you gain with the degree you are currently seeking? Is it worth it to continue with this degree?Wayne (859)283-2500 I feel I have a better chance at my age 52 with this type of degree than without. Face it. My age is now a factor in truck driving and all the other types of jobs I used to do. Retail is fine tempoarily, but I may as well resign myself to working every Sunday and letting go of ministry. Is that really God’s will? We have one working vehicle, so my wife does not work out of home. She makes a few hundred dollars a month selling clothing online. She could expand that if we had more spece. Living with my dad limits what she can do. So again, I feel I’m rolling the dice either way. Degree, allot of debt, but a higher chance at full-time income. No degree, a 12 k income until I retire in abject poverty________________
I guess the bottom line is that if he was leading me, I missed it. Why would God put my family through this for so long otherwise? I’ve apologized to God countless times for the ruin I’ve led my family to. I accept responsibility. That self abasing also makes it hard to believe God will ever trust me with blessings again. Eight years is plenty of time and nothing has changed. I really don’t blame God. I just assume I’m too dense to hear clearly from him any more. Now do I REALY believe all of this? No. But it sure is tempting________________
What is your theology of suffering? Because though God’s will and desire for us is clearly expressed in Christ, the fulfillment of that desire is often much more eschatological than any of us would like. We are heirs of God and fellow heirs of Christ, provided, Paul says, we suffer with Him — in order that we may also be glorified with Him.Did God lead you into this suffering and desire it for you? That is an unproductive question, and regardless of the answer, the fact remains: you are suffering, and despite what many teach, your experience is not unusual for this world that we live in. Paul takes it as a fact that we will suffer, and encourages us to suffer with Christ. I understand your suffering has been great, and I will not pretend that I can empathize with it, nor will I be so arrogant as to presume that some theological concept will make it better. I know that it won’t. But I do know that Christ will — in this life, in hope, and possibly reality; and in reality for sure in the world to come.I can’t relate to your suffering, but Paul can. And following his statement about the inevitability of suffering in Romans 8:17, he begins to consider that suffering in an eschatological context and concludes that as bad as it is, it is not even worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed in us. He paints a grim picture of who we are on this side of Heaven: sons of God desperate to be revealed as such, on the one hand having received the firstfruits of the Spirit, on the other, waiting and groaning for our adoption as sons and for the redemption of our bodies. We may see shadows and glimpses of that redemption in this life as the firstfruits of our inheritance, but we will see it for sure in the world to come, and Paul says
I guess the bottom line is that if he was leading me, I missed it. Why would God put my family through this for so long otherwise? I’ve apologized to God countless times for the ruin I’ve led my family to. I accept responsibility. That self abasing also makes it hard to believe God will ever trust me with blessings again. Eight years is plenty of time and nothing has changed. I really don’t blame God. I just assume I’m too dense to hear clearly from him any more. Now do I REALY believe all of this? No. But it sure is tempting. Res, you & I are friends off this board as well as on it.You have not missed the mark.Every success & every pot-hole is part of God’s infrastructure for your life.For example, God doesn’t have to use you in pulpit ministry just because you graduate with honors at age 25 with a degree in theology. God might use you at 55 & place you as a chaplain at the Fire Dept …one never knows.It doesn’t mean we stop dreaming or that we don’t try to become something better. Life sure does take a lot of detours. You might have to be a bus boy at Applebee’s along the way …only God knows.I’ve been a pastor of a very large church in the past & I’ve seen things change & all of a sudden I’m at a church that has a lot of hurdles & struggles.We just have to remember that in whatever condition I am in, to be there content (Phil. 4)…God hasn’t slapped His forehead wondering where He put you!He knows the plans He has for you & His plans will be fulfilled in His perfect time.We all go through these events in life.I’m a little older than you but I too ask God sometimes, ‘what’s up with where I’m at?’Praying for you & asking God to give you the answer you need & the peace you seek.Dean________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
RS,It’s time to think outside the box.You describe being trapped with no way out.Look for jobs in other cities – look for something you haven’t thought of.Bigger city = more opportunities.Look for a place you and your wife can both work at. Maybe one of the massive Amazons – opportunity to get promoted. Be workers on a cruise ship – or Bermuda…look for something DIFFERENT! Work at Disney World – they have housing available for workers.Perhaps a church has a small house in a new city – you could rent until you can get your own… or be the maintenance man at an apartment complex – get free housing.If you follow God’s will – a door WILL open up. But don’t tell God what His will is. Let him show you – but don’t limit him to the current world you know.If God doesn’t allow you to minister – that’s His choice. If He wants you to – He will have to work it out. But – you must have a decent job and hope for the future. It is not too much to ask. You must be willing to be the best worker – not looking for a place that will take care of you. If you want that – apply in California – tell them you are part Indian like Pocahontas. Get a govt job.LOOK FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT________________
Yes. Usually it was a times of a real personal and/or career crisis. One time in particular really stands out in my memory. I had at the time done all I knew to “get into the ministry,†by which I mean, ministry as a full-time career. After 15 years of being a bivocational minister, my sideline job, which had always been one in which I could earn a decent living, began to diminish markedly in its money-making potential, due to market forces and technological advancement that were quite beyond my control. A job where I had formerly been able to make $20 to $25 an hour as a self-employed contractor working on my computer at home suddenly became, at best, a $10 an hour nightmare. On top of that, the part-time ministry job I had working at the church I LOVED was also going away due to an economic downturn. In desperation, I faced the reality that I would no longer be able to support my wife and two young children, who were 2-1/2 and 6 months of age, respectively. After several days of feeling as if I would lose my mind, I “put out a fleece,†so to speak. I had been told by a good friend of a small church in another state that had been without a pastor for three months. After sending my resume and doing a phone interview, my wife and I were being voted on by the church. I had completely resolved in my heart and mind that if it were God’s will for me to be in the ministry, then this one vote would tell the tale. If we did not get the vote, I was ready to accept that it was not God’s will for me to pastor at all. I would completely stop wasting my time pursuing ministry as a career, and would focus all my time and talent into finding a career in which I could provide for my own household, lest I be worse than an infidel, and deny the faith. I would just be as good a church member as I could be, and would only pursue ‘lay ministries’ from then on. I would just chalk up to sincere mistakenness my perception of having been called to be a pastor. I believe the Lord answered. We were elected unanimously by the church. I still have primarily been bivocational, but in any case, the Lord has always provided for us one way or another.
I hope they are successful & get Gen. Mattis involved in blocking this as they did 3 years ago.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I follow the statement, Why is This even being considered or discussed?Unbelieveable, I do hope NO ONE caves and feels it is Policically correct. OUCH ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Yeah, why create chaplain posts for something that isn’t even a religion? Why flush those salary dollars down the toilet? Does the navy get too much money in tax payer dollars________________
If anyone here knows, they haven’t said.And why would it be any of our business________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
This is a belieber fishing expedition. It isn’t our business. We can all be thankful that Bryan is doing what he loves with PS, and Kevin is still winning Chattanooga for Christ. It’s a win-win. God wins________________
I’m just asking a question because I was curious. I wasn’t fishing for anything. Why is anything we ask on here any of our business? When Kevin pulled out of the COG and there was discussion on here, ya’ll didn’t seem to mind asking questions or making statements then.Why is my question any different? I just simply didn’t know why he really left his church. I was and am just curious.
I guess if we need to know, it will eventually be told.From what I read on FB on his page, Bryan Cutshall sought the Lord about the offer and wrote down several things that needed to happen if this was the direction he was to take. He had been pastoring over 30 years where he was and was very happy there. Every single thing he wrote down was fulfilled & in a short amount of time. One of those things was his house selling, which it did in less than 24 hours.But sometimes where we think God is leading us is not where He is really leading us. Sometimes there’s a curve in the road we didn’t expect________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
I will give the real answer
Bryan left so HQ could clone him, make multiple copies, and dispatch vast church growth teams across the USA.ThereNow the fishing can cease. ________________
This should be saved as one of the best quotes of 2018. So VERY true.Nicely done Carolyn________________
Diverging visions….
Re: Diverging visions….
But neither Paul nor Barnabas left the COG
But neither Paul nor Barnabas left the COG Yes, but Paul and Barnabas parted ways, which is precisely the analog to Wallace and Cutshall, it seems.
Bryan Cutshall left KW LOOONG before Kevin Wallace left the COG.And while seeking the Lord and repenting of how he handled some things from the past at the Spirit’s prompting, God has opened a door of ministry for Bryan Cutshall to do exactly what he left his church to do. So no harm, no foul..________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Bryan Cutshall left KW LOOONG before Kevin Wallace left the COG.And while seeking the Lord and repenting of how he handled some things from the past at the Spirit’s prompting, God has opened a door of ministry for Bryan Cutshall to do exactly what he left his church to do. So no harm, no foul…
What does unaccredited schools an independent churches have in common?
What does unaccredited schools an independent churches have in common? Self-regulation an no external oversight. Be careful oh mighty judge Country Preach, I left the CoG one time & went fully indie for almost 2 years before we joined a mainline denomination.During that first 2 years we aligned ourselves with several other local pastors who were invited to join our board of overseers in order to offer oversight to our struggling ministry. So your opinion is a very weak one at best!!
What does unaccredited schools an independent churches have in common? Self-regulation an no external oversight. Be careful oh mighty judge Country Preach, I left the CoG one time & went fully indie for almost 2 years before we joined a mainline denomination.During that first 2 years we aligned ourselves with several other local pastors who were invited to join our board of overseers in order to offer oversight to our struggling ministry. So your opinion is a very weak one at best!!
Hey Doc. I mean OTCP.What does a schedule of guest ministers got do with anything you posted.BTW, Moses Choudary holds degrees from Lee College and the School of Theology. So do his four daughters, one of his sons-in-law holds a Dm from Luther Rice seminary at Emory. Chew on that roll!The Choir from OBI is coming not the school. Although in the many years of contact with OBI graduates, not one of them has ever disappointed me. Outstanding character.Kenny Morris, well his name speaks for itself. Maybe you should visit in May. You might pray through________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
SheepDog
Andy, son, how long have you an me sparred on Acts over indy stuff? Son, the ole timers yankin ya chain. I know they is good solid independent folk saved an goin to heaven (cept in Modesta, CA. ). I got relatives who was COG an left the COG an is now independent. The ole timer has preached revivals in independent churches.
I don’t know bro, Summerville is a right fer piece from Pikeville.
SheepDog, he can’t come by no matter how close/far it is – his identity would be revealed & we would know that a former PB was this OTCP all along. You stand a lot better chance of me showing up than him & if I come I promise to bring my brand new doctorate with me from this wonderful institution of high learning located right here in rural Modesto, CA. ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
No more than them things cost, Dean, bring Andy one too………
No more than them things cost, Dean, bring Andy one too……… The link you shared offers a special buy two and get the 3rd one FREE so I think I’ll get you both one so mine is the freebie ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
No more than them things cost, Dean, bring Andy one too……… The link you shared offers a special buy two and get the 3rd one FREE so I think I’ll get you both one so mine is the freebie . Son, ats a real deal.Dr. SheepDogDr. SteenburghDr. OTCPHey, we might git appointed to serve on the credentialin committee.
OTCP
Old Time I think your leaning that way since we now see that you took the time to look these up which in itself at least shows a bit of interest. You don’t need the creds but for the good folks in Pikeville you might be recognized as Dr. Old Time Country Preacher.It’s only $50 & I’m sure the members of your church would love to refer to you as Dr. Pastor & your preacher friends could sincerely refer to you as Doc.It’s a win-win!________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
First, what is your definition of an evangelist?
An itinerant preacher or someone who plants and establishes churches where there are none________________
I’ll answer your question even though you sidestepped mine. An evangelist as I have been taught is each and every one of us who are saved. In the context to which I am asking, an Evangelist is one who travels either to a church or other facility in order to preach the gospel for the sole purpose of winning the lost or encouraging the faithful. I do not define an Evangelist as a church planter, though others may do so I suppose________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.��
Ron are you a pastor or evangelist? OTCP, I have been a church planter as well as a pastor. If I were to be labeled anything today it would most likely be an Evangelist, if the definition of an Evangelist is one who preaches the gospel either in a church or other facility for the sole purpose of winning the lost or encouraging the faithful________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
I’ll answer your question even though you sidestepped mine. An evangelist as I have been taught is each and every one of us who are saved. In the context to which I am asking, an Evangelist is one who travels either to a church or other facility in order to preach the gospel for the sole purpose of winning the lost or encouraging the faithful. I do not define an Evangelist as a church planter, though others may do so I suppose. I didn’t sidestep, I asked for clarification of your definition. That being done, I will answer. I always used pastors for revivals because I knew them, they had demonstrated their stability, and I found that they had a common vision. This is not to say an evangelist cannot.But through the years, I saw too many pastors have to spend a ton of time doing damage control after an evangelist would tear things up through questionable doctrine or just remarks made from the pulpit. So I chose to use fellow pastors.Now may I share a personal observation valid to no one but myself?A lot a people we call evangelists are pastors without a church and just waiting for one to open up.Just my personal observation________________
I’ll answer your question even though you sidestepped mine. An evangelist as I have been taught is each and every one of us who are saved. In the context to which I am asking, an Evangelist is one who travels either to a church or other facility in order to preach the gospel for the sole purpose of winning the lost or encouraging the faithful. I do not define an Evangelist as a church planter, though others may do so I suppose. I didn’t sidestep, I asked for clarification of your definition. That being done, I will answer. I always used pastors for revivals because I knew them, they had demonstrated their stability, and I found that they had a common vision. This is not to say an evangelist cannot.But through the years, I saw too many pastors have to spend a ton of time doing damage control after an evangelist would tear things up through questionable doctrine or just remarks made from the pulpit. So I chose to use fellow pastors.Now may I share a personal observation valid to no one but myself?A lot a people we call evangelists are pastors without a church and just waiting for one to open up.Just my personal observation. Ditto! ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
this doleful circumstance?In years gone by and when I took my exhorter’s test a major question asked, a question no where I could find could to be legitimate in the materials given for me to prepare, was, Have you conducted at least two weeks successful revival?When I answered, No. there was a look of horror and they asked, Why not? I replied, I’ve been pastoring for five months. They passed me.During Camp Meeting there was a deluge of eager evangelists soliciting me to allow them to come conduct a revival. This was the mentality of the age and set the paradigm some pastors lament – untested, unproved evangelists wanting to fill their schedule (they depended upon it to make ends meet).The more successful and the more bookings to fill their calendar, they saw as a hope to achieve their goal – to be one of the State Evangelist (with the financial benefits, as well as the notoriety).Many, if not most, had a change in calling from Evangelist to Pastor. Some had run the circuit so long there was no freshness. Some married, had kids, and needed the stability (these thoughts are what I’ve been told by men who made the transition). We missed it somehow. Many of the eager evangelists sitting on our pews should have been taught to become lay speakers who functioned chiefly in the local setting. They would have, should have been an invaluable tool to the local pastor – provided the local pastor was not of the jealous type (another unfortunate contribution to the mix.When I served on the State Ordination Exam Board, I began to believe we made the process way too easy. I was/am not against wanting to help those who want to serve, but too many were motivated by the glamour, the excitement and were not serious about their Bible Study – just a few red hots is all they needed rather than spending the time necessary to craft a message God may have wanted the local congregation to hear.As a district pastor I attended a revival where a man I sat on the Ordination exam and signed the ordination reluctantly. Just didn’t feel right. He was preaching to a dead house and so he got excited and said something off the wall (I don’t remember what it was) and excitedly came to where I was sitting and he said, Isn’t that right, Brother Ledbetter?I just sat there and stared at him and he took off running to the other side of the church and everybody got excited.I can remember thinking then, I wish I could take my name off his papers.I believe the Church of God system contributed to this doleful circumstance.By the way, if you need an evangelist (not looking for a church to pastor or espouse an off-the-wall message, but a message of salvation, revival, restoration, and the Return of Jesus our Messiah), give me a call.While I have some major themes I believe God wants me to address, what I usually do is sit down and ask, Lord, you had Jesus write the seven churches a specific letter for each respective church. Is there something specific You would like for me to address at this church (to which I was going to preach)?________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
I’ve answered that question before, on this forum, as a matter of fact. I use pastors 99% of the time. Here is why:I’ve never had a fellow pastor preach to my congregation on giving…just before his offering is received. I’ve never had a fellow pastor play games during the altar call like, Straighten the crooked leg, or Is anybody here named John, Bill, or Joe? I have word from the Lord from you?I’ve never had a fellow pastor speak to my congregation in an arrogant, condensing tone, when he didn’t get the response he wanted.I’ve never had a fellow pastor provide me with a needs list prior to coming. (specific brand of bottled water, snacks for the hotel room, etc)I’ve never had a fellow pastor abandon an altar call, so he could go man his product booth, in the foyer.I’ve never had any of that mess with a fellow pastor.I’ve had all of that mess with evangelists________________
Re: Hasn’t the COG "System" Created
Probably something like Moses spoke in tongues based on Exodus 32:32
I’ll answer your question even though you sidestepped mine. An evangelist as I have been taught is each and every one of us who are saved. In the context to which I am asking, an Evangelist is one who travels either to a church or other facility in order to preach the gospel for the sole purpose of winning the lost or encouraging the faithful. I do not define an Evangelist as a church planter, though others may do so I suppose. I didn’t sidestep, I asked for clarification of your definition. That being done, I will answer. I always used pastors for revivals because I knew them, they had demonstrated their stability, and I found that they had a common vision. This is not to say an evangelist cannot.But through the years, I saw too many pastors have to spend a ton of time doing damage control after an evangelist would tear things up through questionable doctrine or just remarks made from the pulpit. So I chose to use fellow pastors.Now may I share a personal observation valid to no one but myself?A lot a people we call evangelists are pastors without a church and just waiting for one to open up.Just my personal observation. In my humble opinion, a preacher looking for a church to pastor is NOT an Evangelist.I understand every thing you said, and have witnessed all of it and more. On the other hand, we are to know them which labor among us, and that falls squarely in the lap of the host pastor. A shepherd must guard his flock against the wolves, and that includes those in sheep’s clothing does it not? When I was a pastor I got in a lot of hot water from my leadership for refusing to allow a certain individual in my pulpit, an individual that most pastors seemed to enjoy. Because I knew this person’s reputation was one of shenanigans and outright false doctrine I said absolutely not. I never regretted my decision and would do the same a thousand times even knowing the consequences________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
I’ve answered that question before, on this forum, as a matter of fact. I use pastors 99% of the time. Here is why:I’ve never had a fellow pastor preach to my congregation on giving…just before his offering is received. I’ve never had a fellow pastor play games during the altar call like, Straighten the crooked leg, or Is anybody here named John, Bill, or Joe? I have word from the Lord from you?I’ve never had a fellow pastor speak to my congregation in an arrogant, condensing tone, when he didn’t get the response he wanted.I’ve never had a fellow pastor provide me with a needs list prior to coming. (specific brand of bottled water, snacks for the hotel room, etc)I’ve never had a fellow pastor abandon an altar call, so he could go man his product booth, in the foyer.I’ve never had any of that mess with a fellow pastor.I’ve had all of that mess with evangelists. I would think that after just one encounter with one of these types would have been enough. Preachers such as you describe are an embarrassment to the church and should never be allowed access to your pulpit. Why would you not make it very clear to any future Evangelists that there are certain things that will not be tolerated, and at the first infraction the service is over? It has been my observation through the years that many people claiming to be an Evangelist forget that they are a guest, and as such should respect both the man of God and the house of God________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
So to wrap this up, it would seem that nothing much has changed in the past 40 years concerning the use of pastors or Evangelists. If anything, the use of a pastor to preach a revival or special service has increased.It’s a shame however, because an Evangelist brings something to the church that is still needed, that being a fresh perspective and another set of eyes. Of course, the flip side of that is that there are pastors who consider this to be “rocking the boatâ€.A common theme I’ve heard is this concern that somehow an Evangelist is going to come in and tear up your church and the pastor is going to be left to repair the damage. As I made the point earlier, we are to know them that labor among us, meaning we bear some responsibility in what is said or done.I will also say this, an Evangelist is often used of God to reveal things or bring things to light that have been left to simmer,hidden from scrutiny. This of course makes pastors uncomfortable, which is understandable. It’s much easier to let sleeping dogs lie, but I would argue that it’s not the best course of action.Enjoyed the input. Thank you________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
In the verse before, Paul says he’s the last of the apostles. I think it’s a good discussion to have — but it’s probably a little more complicated than grabbing a couple proof texts and suggesting that anyone who disagrees wants to pick and choose what Scripture to believe.I don’t think 1 Cor 15:8
Re: Is the ministry of an apostle biblical today? What of a prophet? Women in ministry?
In the verse before, Paul says he’s the last of the apostles. I think it’s a good discussion to have — but it’s probably a little more complicated than grabbing a couple proof texts and suggesting that anyone who disagrees wants to pick and choose what Scripture to believe.I don’t think 1 Cor 15:8is a text clearly opposing modern-day apostles, but if you want to have a sincere discussion, maybe don’t start by implying anyone who would disagree with you is picking and choosing what to believe and damaging the call of God in others. The sincere discussion is attempted by this thread hence the question marks & suggestive texts rather than statements of opinion. I have read the previous verses & don’t see where he claims to be the ‘last’ apostle.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
First of all, I don’t see Paul declaring himself as the last apostle in 1 Corinthians 15:8. He does say that he is the last in his list of those who saw the post resurrected Jesus. He then follows by stating in verse 9 that, in his opinion, he is the least of the apostles. But I think its a stretch to connect the two as him saying he is the least and the last.Second, if we presume to determine that the role of the Apostle is no longer needed/important, we bring into question Ephesians 4:11. To eliminate one office would then open the door to question the ongoing need of any or all. It also positions us in the same place as those who claim that tongues have ceased with the written word, and are therefore not for today. I get that we have backed away from some titles because of the misuse and abuse that is prevalent. I think we would be better served to study such things out and have a clear biblical understanding. That would protect the church from the title chasers who seek to misuse scripture to define their desire for recognition. It would also make room in the church for all that God has set in place for the church.
I agree. My point in mentioning it was to say that proof texts can be stretched on either side, and to take issue with Dean’s marginalization of the other side of this discussion on the basis of a couple of proof texts.
Dean’s marginalization is not there to establish bias but to provoke a response. You read emotion into the text on your own & it wasn’t my intention to lean the debate one direction or another & I think you knew that. As a traditional pentecostal in the CoG I know a lot of those in ministry have varying views of apostles & prophets in the church in terms of having a ministry position using said gift.I would love to hear a few responses from some of the more traditional pentecostal ministers on the above topic.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
No, I don’t think it was your intention at all. It seems clear you were hoping for a genuine discussion. So I’m trying to help ya out by pointing out that, intention or no, that’s what ya did.
On topic — what was/is the biblical purpose of the ministry of apostle?Assuming apostles continue today — is their ministry qualitatively different than the early ministry of the apostles?We know that there is at least one significant qualitative difference, and that’s that any apostle who ministers today has not been a physical witness to the resurrected Jesus. This was a distinguishing mark of the biblical apostles (Acts 1:22, 1 Cor 9:1, 1 Cor 15:7-8).I would argue there is another significant qualitative difference — the apostles were those who laid the foundation of the church (1 Cor 12:28, Eph 2:20). Note that they are not
If I use your opening line:
Consider it within the whole context of Scripture. Specifically to this passage (and in line with the rest of what I said), we would understand the qualitative difference between the gifting of apostleship (being sent to be a missionary, church planter, etc.) and the office of apostle that existed at the foundation of the church and was held by people who had seen the resurrected Christ, were chosen by Him to lay the foundation of His church, and whose teaching could not be rejected or refused.We’d also probably avoid the term apostle in general so as not to confuse those with these missionary giftings with folks like Peter Wagner, who claimed that a modern day apostle was a:
I don’t know ifn ya exegeted at thing right, Dave. But I bet it was good.
Was the separation surgery successful________________
Re: Made an amazing discovery today
Our splurge in calories and what every else is in it, We visited the waffle House and had a Pecan Waffle with regular syrup! WITH THEIR GREAT COFFEE, (DO NOT TELL RR)________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Two THICK-SLICED pieces of bacon united in matrimony to form an even THICKER slice of bacon!
Though Peter was looking forward to Christ in faith, and would have been justified by that faith had he died prior to the resurrection — as Abraham and the patriarchs were — he was nevertheless unregenerate at this point, and still had a completely fallen nature.
How about Peter was in his fles________________Ps 122:6
So Dave, u would agree Peter was in the flesh, things of Man rather than the things of G-d. Get behind Me hasatan, satan (adversary), for u are an offense (stumbling block) to Me. satan means adversary, offense is stumbling block. Peter didn’t want to see that happen to Y’shua, his thoughts were those of men. Like the guy he cut off his ear, was that thinking like G-d? No, he was in his flesh.Peter was being an adversary to Messiah & could have been a stumbling block in the plan of G-d. If we have a mindset of not accepting things from above because how we see things in our heart on the **way** we think things should be, then **we** are now in an adversal role, of how wesee things. Peter was I’m that mindset.The message to Peter in vs 24 was; … If any man will come after me, let him **deny** himself(urself, adversary, human thought) and take up his **cross** (sufferings) and follow Me. I’m tying this into Passover with the story of Peter. Let’s use the Book as our guide/manuel, not fles________________Ps 122:6
Oh hey look, you posted asking if anyone had any thoughts about a passage but the whole time you were just intending to monologue about your beliefs. That was unexpected. Lol, dave, whatever do u mean. Was that not a statement u Believe in________________Ps 122:6
OTCP, sounds like you need to attend the Purpose-Driven Dream Destiny Conference I’m putting on. We’re gonna have 6 main sessions where we exegete the Gilligan’s Island theme and discover the biblical principles it teaches for how to overcome adversity and enjoy a successful life.
Hey, if I buy tickets for 7 certain Acts posters – will your charter get them lost on an island with NO INTERNET service________________
Hey, if I buy tickets for 7 certain Acts posters – will your charter get them lost on an island with NO INTERNET service?
Hey, if I buy tickets for 7 certain Acts posters – will your charter get them lost on an island with NO INTERNET service? What a thought! Can I help pick the 7?
Re: Ever Wondered Why a Millionnaire, a Movie Star & Professor was on Gilligan’s Island?
quote=Old Time Country Preacher]See, all of em paid to go on at little chartered boat fer a 3-hour tour.Have you ever wondered why a millionaire, Thurston Howell III and wife Lovie, was on at boat? He probably owned yachts 10 times bigger than the Skipper’s boat. Why would he git on such a skimpy boat?An at movie star, Ginger, with plenty a money, why would she git on the boat?An the Professor, hey, he probably had tenure at a accredited university, an had money, why would he git on such a boat?It makes sense at Mary Ann, Gilligan an the Skipper was on it, but the rest a them folk, it just don’t make good sense.[/quote]No
Re: Were we "pickled" into death in Christ Jesus? (or, what passes for teaching at Bethel Church)
Dave, in my opinion I think your lot in life has been to accept a calling to attack a lot of good people because they don’t think, act or teach like you do!Your constant insults & divisive insinuations towards those who support Bethel ministry say a lot about you …& it’s not good. I hope & pray your day to day life is not so marginalized that you can’t have a one-on-one conversation w/out casting judgment on other Christians or seekers.I have a sincere question for you: has God somehow made an exception in His word to allow you to become a judge of men & their motives?I’ve told you numerous times that I have a few family members who attend there & the way you paint your comments with such broad brush strokes you seem to have no problem insulting people who enjoy the ministry of Bethel.Honestly Dave, is this a game to you? Do you enjoy insulting the faith, belief & spiritual sensitivity of others simply because they don’t believe like you do________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Hey Dean, I noticed you made a lengthy post attacking me but you neglected to mention anything about the topic itself.
Side-step, side-step, side- step!I knew you wouldn’t respond Dave & I don’t believe I attacked you Dave because that is against the rules of this board.I disagreed with you & pointed out your lengthy insult towards people who love & support Bethel ministry.I’ll respond accordingly when you can respond to my comments in a decent manner________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Dean, all I did was post — with video and audio evidence — exactly what Banov taught at Bethel Church on Sunday. You’re the one who lobbed an ad hom rather than defending Banov’s teaching, but
Dave, the playground is for lobbing!You went out of your way to solicit a response because you knew it was salacious.How many times have you heard a lousy analogy or metaphor?Did you even listen to the whole thing or did you just get the pirates version of a little clip________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Dave is doing a similar thing to what the ole timer has done since the inception of Acts, expose/reveal/highlight error and call for discernment in any and ever practice that is questioniable.There is nothing wrong with testing the spirits/practices/beliefs of anyone claiming to be of Christ to determine if indeed they are biblical. What ministers/ministries with questioniable practices do is constantly and consistently look for some new thing. Like their Mars Hill counterparts in the book of Acts that’s all they spend their time doing. Once you pull a rabbit outta the hat for a while it loses its appeal, an ya gotta start pullin two out, then three, and they is never no stopping. In religion, the practices become more and more bizarre and ridiculous. And sadly, the gullible will always be present.
Ain’t that the truth!
And Dean, to answer your question, no, this isn’t a joke to me. These people claim apostolic authority to govern regions and nations but time and time again they can’t exhibit even the most basic faithfulness to Scripture when teaching and preaching God’s word.
Re: Were we "pickled" into death in Christ Jesus? (or, what passes for teaching at Bethel Church)
Also, sincere question… has He for you? Because there’s only one person judging hearts and motives in this thread, and it’s not me. My post was focused on the content of Banov’s teaching and the practices of Bethel Church. I have no idea about Banov’s motives or Johnson’s motives, but frankly, I assume they are genuine and good, and that their teaching and practices are the result of a lack of biblical understanding and not any deliberate desire to deceive. I have no reason to believe otherwise.You’re the one who made it a question of my heart, as you always do, and as brotherjames always did. You guys seem unable to defend the practices of these folks (understandably so) and so you go after the motives of the person bringing you information you don’t like, all the while ironically asking them how they justify judging the hearts and motives of others.
And Dean, to answer your question, no, this isn’t a joke to me. These people claim apostolic authority to govern regions and nations but time and time again they can’t exhibit even the most basic faithfulness to Scripture when teaching and preaching God’s word.As long as they’re deceiving folks and as long as I’ve got breath in me, I’ll do whatever I can to help people see the biblical truth of what is going on and get away from the NAR/WOF movement. People did that for me when I was stuck in these movements, and I’m grateful every day that they did. Do you honestly believe there are people on this talk board stuck in these movements? Hence why I question your motivation for the barrage of anti-Bethel content________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Also, sincere question… has He for you? Because there’s only one person judging hearts and motives in this thread, and it’s not me. My post was focused on the content of Banov’s teaching and the practices of Bethel Church. I have no idea about Banov’s motives or Johnson’s motives, but frankly, I assume they are genuine and good, and that their teaching and practices are the result of a lack of biblical understanding and not any deliberate desire to deceive. I have no reason to believe otherwise.You’re the one who made it a question of my heart, as you always do, and as brotherjames always did. You guys seem unable to defend the practices of these folks (understandably so) and so you go after the motives of the person bringing you information you don’t like, all the while ironically asking them how they justify judging the hearts and motives of others.You’re not the person I’m trying to reach with posts like this, but honest to goodness, when you come into threads like this all you do is help me make my case to those I am trying to reach. If this stuff was defensible, presumably you’d defend it. But it isn’t, so you don’t. You just attack the person who brought it up. Dave I recognize your debate class tactics but let’s get real here.You cannot tell me that your honest to goodness, daily plan is to warn the mostly CoG ministry posters on Acts that Redding, CA. has been invaded by the WOF’s & NAR’s.Come on dude …I’ve been in ministry for 40 yrs & I’ve seen this plenty of times.Just admit it & let’s have a quick laugh & move on.I read where you were once trapped in the NAR movements & later on you embraced another belief, I understand your thoughts but I don’t slight you for your different beliefs.For you to lump all people of NAR or even WOF beliefs into one single theology is silly. Thats like saying all pentecostals are the same & those of us who still claim to be pentecostal would take offense at that.Have you ever followed anything Banov has ever done outside of your Bethel view of him?Have you seen the work he’s done? Do you do these kinds of works Dave? James 2reminds us that Faith w/out works is dead so I’m asking you Dave, do you operate in works in conjunction w/your faith?These are not fun questions or teasing to get a comical response.Have you seen the thousands of starving people who patiently wait for a simple meal in a 3rd world country & then hear the Banov’s tell them about Jesus & His saving grace?When I hear you nit pick at an odd analogy in reference to baptism & basically call the man a fraud or even blasphemous, it makes me cringe that you’re so eager to judge somebody who is feeding the starving masses while telling them about the love of Jesus.Maybe his illustration & explanation on the pickle & baptism were out there for those of us in the mainstream but keep in mind he was talking to mostly post-grad students & was talking about being changed from the inside out (like what happens when a person really gets baptized instead of just getting wet). Can’t believe I’m saying this but oh well, when a cucumber shows up to be pickled it doesn’t happen until the process is done.The cucumber cannot ever be a pickle ever again. No, I’m not fond of the analogy & if I were sitting there I probably would have scoffed or laughed it off …but I wouldn’t go on Acts & make fun of a guy who lays down his life & meets the poorest of the poor at the point of their most basic need in life.You said this Dave:
Thanks for a good reply, Dean.I have to say that I think you’re way off base too, though. We’re commanded in Scripture to test these things, and as created beings, we do not get to determine what that test is. The tests are commanded to us. One test is character, but the more prominent test commanded in Scripture is the test of doctrine.You sound like you follow Banov’s ministry. Perhaps you are then also aware that at Todd Bentley’s apostolic alignment ceremony, Banov prophesied two texts over him that apply to Christ and Christ alone:
This is blasphemy of the highest order. It might not damn a man to Hell, and Banov is not necessarily beyond repentance for it, but it is representative of what John calls the spirit of antichrist. This is no joke, and it should be enough to disqualify a man from a pulpit, both because it was a false prophecy and because it betrays such an incredible misunderstanding of the gospel and the person and work of Jesus Christ. It should at the very least be enough to let someone know if you invite that man to preach, you’re probably going to hear the holy sacrament of baptism described as pickling. The fact that Banov would look at Todd Bentley and speak words over Him that apply to Christ alone — it should make you want to tear your clothes! We ought to be calling these men to repentance — not opening pulpits to them and sending them money and listening to their podcasts. We ought to be warning others about them, as Scripture commands us to do.And yeah, Dean… I do think there are folks on Acts who are wrapped up in this stuff.I’m going to cut it off here because theological disagreement between brothers should first and foremost involve charity, and I suspect both of us are at risk of missing that mark, if we have not already. I wish you well. I’ll respond by saying this, I appreciate the fact that you responded & I’ll have to delve into this for more clarification.As to this disagreement, I would not cross the line to forgo charity unless you attack my family.Finally, NO …I have not & do not follow his ministry as a supporter. I do however follow ‘the’ ministry of many who go to the places that most Americans would never go & I am humbled by their dedication.Blessing________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
well more than four, but only four very well.
I’m learning, my response I should have typed here.
Welcome aboard. I agree it is good to see a NEW face (in words) around here. Looking forward to hearing from you. I think most of us read for a long time before jumping. So…… Good to have you! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Welcome to the new and exciting age of actscelerate
I have trouble buying this…
Who in the WORLD could read Actscelerate for FOUR YEARS and no make a comment? Especially when we think back over the numerous and involved discussions we’ve had in the last four years–and that’s been while we have been in serious DECLINE!
Re: I have trouble buying this…
We must be there. Church has beautiful wooden pews at least 60 plus years old. They’re about 25-30 feet long each and weigh seems like a ton each. But they are very nice. You want to get an end seat, so that when you fall asleep in church, you won’t fall out into the aisle! This is the voice of experience talking here.
Ain’t it the truth! I can hardly read more than 3 a Aarons posts an not comment.
Ain’t it the truth! I can hardly read more than 3 a Aarons posts an not comment.
Ain’t it the truth! I can hardly read more than 3 a Aarons posts an not comment. Which one is he again? If you ever read a post and said to yourself – that is about the dumbest thing I have ever read – my IQ went down just by exposing myself to it – then you can be sure it is one of Aaron’s posts. ________________
Hands down, it is Logos.It is a massive library, so yes, it will take some time. But if ya beef up ya computer like mine, hey, mine runs with no problem.
Logos ain’t cheap, Sheik, the ole timer wanted this program for a good ten years for I got it. I started with Logos 4 an one a the more economical packages. Then, year by year I added as I could afford it. I use it ever week. The new Logos 7 allows ya to build sermons, use http://www.gracewaymedia.com
PowerBible. I love it________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
The OLD QuickVerse is BY FAR the fastest and best Bible software I have ever seen.The new one (like you might see online) is largely worthless, and it pales in comparison to the old version (which runs very differently).
And they don’t come bundled with interest, either. There’s a small one-time fee for setting up the plan (or at least there was when I signed up for it) but that’s it. Then you just get two years to pay for it.
You’re likely to get a quicker response emailing him at [email protected].
I would not be surprised to see something like this happen________________
There have been a few indictments but none that warrant much attention.Apparently the only way they catch the big fish is they start with the minnows & work their way up, but even then there are def signs of impending doom for the shot callers, lol.This has been a witch hunt from day one & if anybody should be ousted I would say cut Rod Rosenstein. He’s nearly become a career politician without even being elected.He claims to be a republican because he joined the DOJ under W. Bush but that doesn’t make him a conservative. In fact I think he despises Mr. Trump.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I think your suggestion is better than mine. Today I told my wife, I think Trump might fire Mueller. I have never seen a man who did not mind controversy as much as Trump and keep on working as if there are no problems.I thought the call to Putin was the thing to do. I about cracked up when folks came out of the wood work saying he should have chastened Putin for poisoning the spy in England. instead of congratulating him. I am so disappointed in McCain. He did not say a word that I remember when Obama called Putin and congratulated him. Or when he said on the open mike to a rep, Tell PUtin I will be more flexable after the election, etc. But I think your point on a termination point is good. Mueller is in fact costing the gov’e millions with nothing really to show for it. SEND that idea to the whitehouse. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
That is, is the guy REALLY saying that it does begin with the Watchmen?
He just does not wear the façade that all the others did that Christians fell in love with like Bush. I’m glad we have a street fighter in there standing up to the scum of the earth. Samuel hacked these types to death. Trump has shown great restraint compared to that________________
I’ve seen COG preachers what fit the above description, especially the words in bold.Imagine Trumps language ifn he wasn’t a Christian……………..
I will agree that many of his actions do not seem to be one’s that any rational person would deem Christ-like – but perhaps he is being rated on the Todd Bentley scale. By that standard – Trump is probably an apostle.C’mon Old Timer – give me an amen on that one. ________________
Geo-political vs. the Church. Two different realms. My Samuel analogy is valid because if someone in the church hacked a WoF false prophet to pieces today, he’d be labeled a murderer. Trump has not killed anyone, but there are plenty of people in Washington that our Founders would have hung________________
________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I’ve seen COG preachers what fit the above description, especially the words in bold.Imagine Trumps language ifn he wasn’t a Christian…………….. I was typing the exact same response except I was spelling ‘preachers’ cause it’s not just a CoG thing lol________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Re: I’m So Glad Trump is a Christian!
Don’t be so thin-skinned LOL ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Sure we can judge! Jesus judged. Jesus told the Pharisees, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?†(Matt. 23:23) That’s pretty severe judgment. Examples of Jesus making severe judgments could be listed for pages. The whole Sermon on the Mount is a series of condemnations of the evil teachings and practices of the Pharisees. Jesus told the Pharisees that they should judge, but with a different standard than what they had been using: “Has not Moses given you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. . . . Do not judge by appearances, but JUDGE with right judgment.†(John 7:19)
I Knew It Was Sarcasm
Re: I Knew It Was Sarcasm
Sorry, I meant to address my reply to Dean, who I am not sure caught the sarcasm, given that he posts frequently about how Christians are apparently never supposed to judge anything.
Sorry, I meant to address my reply to Dean, who I am not sure caught the sarcasm, given that he posts frequently about how Christians are apparently never supposed to judge anything.Your biblical exegesis on the subject was excellent and is sorely needed. Sorry to disappoint Dave, I saw the humor & went along with it but you couldn’t help but take a jab again________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I love how you’re always going along with the joke, but I’m always super duper serious about everything.POKE!but seriously though don’t you frequently post in Trump threads about 1 Tim 2
I love how you’re always going along with the joke, but I’m always super duper serious about everything.POKE!but seriously though don’t you frequently post in Trump threads about 1 Tim 2
Thx Doyle
Nice to be reminded.Funny, a few years ago I made a general comment immediately following someone who was using their pen name in a discussion about California & the PNW considering a merger to become one giant state made up of 5 states. I wasn’t privy to any details but I thought it was a good idea if it were actually being considered.I voiced my positive opinion using my real name of course & apparently somebody was watching & reading.It wasn’t a half hour & our state overseer (at that time) had me on the phone & wanted to know why I made my comments & wanted me to reach out to the pen name person & ask them to stop making comments …as if I could lolI told that AB that people using pen names are anonymous & we don’t have a way to determine who they are.It’c comical now but un-nerving at the time. ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Wow!!!! This makes the CoG sound like some vindictive group of people who have a specific agenda and anyone who goes against this agenda will be visited in the middle of the night by men in long black coats. If I felt the CoG was truly like this I would have pulled out a long time ago. I definitely would not have planted a church in this denomination. While I do not agree with everything and have had some issues, I understand that in an organization as large as this, it’s hard for each individual to get what they want…. It’s the same way in my secular job.I truly understand the use of a pen name to discuss freely your frustrations but I don’t understand being able to just slam away without working through the chain of command and trying to resolve the issues.This is too much paranoia for me.
You could substitute any names or positions for any others in my post. I’m just trying to have some conversation. This assembly doesn’t have a lot of positional moves but what if it did? What if someone retires? Or pulls out of the COG. Totally hypothetical.
Lets just say that if that did happen, nobody west of the Rockies would have any idea who you were talking about lo________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
‘Cause no one called to tell me! You were the one elected.Congrats________________
I do have a question.Why do officials accept an apt for 2 or 4 years – and then leave before their time is up to get a better appt?So much for making a commitment. I hope no officials expect members or pastors to keep any commitments to the COG. They are teaching us – if the grass is greener – go________________
The folks in ENC could be really upset if Rob & Candy Taylor left. They are awesome________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
What I know about this program I will learn here. BUT for a fact it will not be written to win folks to Christ. BUT I guarantee it it stays on the air Fundamental people will be drawn into Bible discussions. I hope it hangs in there. I think I could watch it and laugh also. One thing we as Christians start doing when something like this comes up is try to fit it into ‘OUR VIEW OF THE BIBLE’ and common sense tells you that ain’t gonna happen. I suggest you watch every once in awhile if it hunts. Just to be able to honestly engage your friends or real critics.Ever watch the Waltons? The whole family goes to church, carries Bibles etc. Daddy does not. Says he feels close to nature out on the mountain, and if there is a God he did a masterful job.I had several very good discussions with friends because of this. It caused me to seek better info than I had. It may not have helped my friends, but it caused me to search the scriptures more.When it first started I felt like I had accidentally found a gun fight and all I had was a knife, ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
One of the biggest reasons I could not vote for Trump is that it does not appear that he has even read the Constitution of the United States of America.
Wolf on church street lol. I think John Goodman or Jack Black would be great in the role. Have any of you folks seen Bernie it is on Netflix. It is about this baptist undertaker who was also a quartet singer that murders the meanest women in town. It is hilarious and based on a true story. I still shocks me that Jack Black sings love lifted me youtu.be/1QySdO-Utd4
youtu.be/ItjXTieWKyI
But let’s face reality, it is the small church that pulls the church of God and just about every denomination. Check this graphic out from the association of small churches. Here is their Facebook m.facebook.com/ASCPastors/I love big churches, but why do you think state campground cater to the small or mid sized church. It is because those churches are the main source of funding for them. Now we are facing the reality that small churches are closing. Who is filling that gap of resources
Mainly, Tom, to see if you still believed.
Re: Someone DROWNING is not concerned if the rescuer has a degree.
Let’s take it a step further. Ifn OTCP was drowndin, an a feller comes by in a boat an says, hey, I got two unaccredited doctorates an a fake doctorate, do you want me to help you? OTCP would, without hesitation, say No thank you. Cause hey, ifn he is out on a boat toutin his questionable credentials, how do I know the rope is secure? How do I know his boat ain’t gotta hole in it an once in the boat we both drown, then my legacy is marred for dyin with a unaccredited degree holder? Or still yet, what ifn he posts on Acts an tells everbody how a unaccredited degree holder saved OTCP’s life an that somehow validates his life experience doctorate?
Yes Absolutel________________
can’t believe Im saying this
Well said! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
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