Given my pen name, I’m probably not the correct person to respond. Like you, I grew up during the conservative era (in the COGOP, not the COG) and I am far too familiar with the situation where people were disfellowshipped for such major sins of playing on a baseball team, going to movies, etc. Few want to return to those days.Like you, I also fear the pendulum swinging too far the other way. I remember my mother talking about shouting Methodists as I gather at one time some also shouted similar to Pentecostals, minus the tongues. Obviously, they have moved far to the left as an overall denomination. I would not want that to be the case for the COGOP or COG. If the Methodists can swing so far, the COG could do the same.I’m afraid History does not support the ability of an organization to remain on the moderately conservative side, without swinging to all out liberal.
In my opinion, as an old guy. I grew up like many older folk in the ‘cannot’ era of the church. I think there is definitely room for all in the COG. Those Wonderful early folk who wanted only to be close to God and thought the way to make it was to list many rules. Most who joined did abide by them. WERE they to far out, I think so. I know and remember many good saints of God who did not point fingers, they accepted the fact others may think different.I know I am not the only one, but I have known mean spriited people who KNEW everyone but them was headed for HELL, because they did not follow their rules.Not many folk enjoy being around a mean spirited person. And I am one of them. I remember reading, ‘Throw the first stone’ if you are so good.’Even as a kid in the 40’s I did not like Rock Throwers. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
…________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Most people that endured the conservative clothesline times are glad that it ended. It dwelt on the externals and did nothing to promote love and acceptance. You conform or you were gone.This generation is looking for a real experience with God. Most of them do not care about the church. I am currently reading The Present Future by Reggie McNeal. The book describes how the come and see attitude is not working in this day and time. Many churches in my area have closed their doors. Others are just hanging on. Those that are making it with todays generation have taken to the streets with projects of helps. Their services do not maximize on speaking in tongues. Hopefully as new people are saved they will learn about the deeper walk in the Spirit.Most churches here that are failing are still doing church in a 1950’s building with 1950’s methods. Its a new day. Get over it.
Excellent post Change Agent. I agree that most of us don’t miss the clothesline emphasis of years ago. However, is there room in the organization for those who do miss it; for those who still cling to what they were taught by the COG as children and teens? I’m certainly open to be surprised, but for the most part, it seems our more conservative ministers and members are often distained; not to their face but behind the scenes.Is that always the case? Most likely not, but if people are attempting to be faithful to what they were taught years ago by our organization, in my opinion, we should keep room in our organization for them to do that with us. As stated in a previous post, religious organizations don’t usually become more conservative. They become more liberal and to my knowledge, there is no effort visible in the COG to slow that trend down.Sadly, the outcome for other organizations that have become more and more liberal, is that they have also become smaller and [email protected]________________
…but unfortunately I’m not sure there is in most COG circles. Those who still live by holiness standards instilled in them by their church, now find themselves even mocked by leaders, in sermons, and looked on as if they are some strange oddity.A few weeks ago I had a wonderful man approach me, who has come to our church since retiring as pastor in a sister and more conservative movement. He offered that he and his wife could go somewhere else if their beliefs were being a hinderance to me. It moved me deeply. I put my arm around him, assured him that they were completely welcome, and praised them for living their convictions. I grew up in that holiness era in the COG. And while I don’t believe everything they preached as sin was/is sin, I also grieve at the loss of a standard of commitment to Christlikeness and holy living. We’ve embraced the hyper-grace movement, emphasized grace and mercy, and de-emphasized holiness to the point that we have churches filled with people who make excuse for their lives, and resist/rebuke anyone that would attempt to correct them biblically. So today we have to deal with women wanting to wear tights as pants with low cut blouses on stage, seeing nothing wrong with putting their figures on display. We have men who smoke, drink, cuss and chew, feeling no conviction over public actions that make them look just like the unsaved. We have families who prioritize sports, hobbies, lake houses, and pretty much everything over a commitment to serving Christ through the church. We have people who see no sin in disrespecting their spiritual leaders, rebelling against their leadership, and even working against what God has sent them to do. And we have churches riddled with folks who demand that we sing their songs their way, have church when they want it, and for no longer than they want to be there, provide full scale ministry for their family in case they decide to show up, and demand nothing of support financially or otherwise for their inclusion in our church. I don’t want to go back to those old ways. I do want to see a revival of conviction that will lead the church back to the cross and to Christ. And I want there to be room for people who still live their convictions, even if those convictions don’t align with the general thinking of today. I had a minister tell me that he asked an elder gentleman why their family had left the Church of God. His reply, We didn’t leave the COG, the COG left us.
I wonder if Howard Goss could even pastor in the UPC today, much less be its General Superintendent. As was observed by another poster, I love to see the modesty of dress displayed by the women in churches who adhere to the old-school holiness dress like the UPC. I do not regret marrying such a lady. However, I also have known many Holy Ghost filled, godly women, highly anointed, who wore pants. What grieved me just before I left the “classical Pentecostal” ranks in 1993 was all the bikini wearing at the church pic-nics by leaders’ wives. What were they thinking? Would they come outside in their bras and panties? No. It’s one thing to wear a bikini at an isolated beach with your family present. But you don’t need to reveal yourself to your brothers in Christ or to men you are not married to. That is not legalism________________