Watch it till the end. Do you believe it?RE Schaumburg testifying of A A Allen’s miracle ministry.youtu.be/SAnYQxXWCME
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Watch it till the end. Do you believe it?RE Schaumburg testifying of A A Allen’s miracle ministry.youtu.be/SAnYQxXWCME
Those are some really amazing stories. With miracles that astounding, I would think there would be at least one supporting medical record, don’t you think? Do you think any of those exist for any of these miracles?I have friends who have experienced miracles of healing. They have medical records documenting the condition they had, and medical records documenting that the condition is no longer there.I would think that would especially be the case for a young man who was healed of 26 diseases, including missing sex organs. And I would think anyone who was sharing the testimony would want to hold those up and show them off, rather than just telling an engaging story about it.Twelve people in wheelchairs — I would think there would be documentation for that if it had happened, don’t you think? Broken or severed spinal columns miraculously healed? Everyone with a walker, everyone with crutches, six blind people healed? Multiple women with tumors that physically disappeared? I understand that it wouldn’t be practical to take a dossier of medical records with you everywhere you go, but any of us should be able to Google one of these miracles to see scans of the records, right? It sounded like there were dozens if not hundreds of miracles. Doctors’ notes, before and after photos — do any of those exist for even one of them?
My wife was in this meeting as a girl
She says unbelievable things happened that night. Here is the pdf of Allen’s newsletter recounting with pictures the story schambaugh shared. No medical proof just pictorial and personal testimony. Faked? Maybe, probably not. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.uhopsf.com/wp-content/uploads/sermons/2016/02/mm_1959_may.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj82M3Ot6vYAhVcVWMKHRSaBps4PBAWCCowAg&usg=AOvVaw3kuQ-IcgUPkjvN0JkeDcq4
That’s probably still the case today, and understandably so. I know I wouldn’t care to have one verified for the purpose of trying to convince an unbeliever. But there would be before and after evidence anyway, such as pictures or records of examinations. I wouldn’t have to say, Can you document that this was a miracle? I’d just have to say, Hey Doc, is that tumor still there?
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Re: Hey OTCP tell me what you think about this video
Thank you, brotherjames, fer anuff confidence in the ole timer to ask. Heres a few thoughts:1. Does God use flawed folk? Yep! But they is a difference in flawed an flaky (i.e., Copeland/Hagin/Allen/Branham’s weird wild wacky doctrines).2. Its RW Schambach… (Turabian/APA citation requires correct spelling).3. Do I believe God could/can do the things Schambach detailed in his narration? Yes I do! Unequivocally!
I was a magician for a few years. I turn water to wine and produce fake fish with gold dollars in their mouths. TV can make Ducks talk. I say this with ali humility and the fear of God, but most likely the majoirity of ‘miracles’ from the 40-50 area cannot pass the smell test.I remember a healing revival in Albemarle, NC 1951, where crutches were bent around a Persimmon tree behind the church as a memorial and testimony. The people I knew personally could always walk ‘some’ without their crutches. Within two weeks they had a new pair. I have seen ‘miracles’, I know miracles. but I also
In medicine we trust…
In America (and most developed nations) we have a great reverence for the field of medicine, including doctors, technology and hospitals. In our age, even or especially in the church, we place great faith in the medical field – to the point we proclaim in medicine we trust. Even in and among Christians and churches, its more whose your doctor and which hospital do you go to, than trusting Jesus alone for healing, because that would be foolish. Often, now a days a pastor is as concerned with the health benefits his church provides as he is about the spiritual health of his members. Should you have a medical doctor attending your church, well that’s a sign of success.The generation of the great healing revivals had few medical options or access, and the medical field was far less developed than it is today. Much like the third world countries of today, health care was woefully lacking. Yet from pulpits across America, pastors decry the lack of miracles in our nation while praising the reports of miracles from missionaries in third world nations. Where’s the medical proof of those far away miracles? By the same standard we apply to the healing revivals of the 1950s, we must conclude these are false reports. No medical proof offered and if we looked into the background we would find some of those ministers on the mission field are flawed.The American church has become like the disciples that Jesus rebuked for not being able to heal, but willing to call fire down on those who are, because they are not with us. If we were able to ask the generation who live before the 1950s, the early Pentecostals, what would they say? How would F. J. Lee respond to medicine over faith? In the current issues of the Evangel, Dr. Roebuck makes reference to A. J. Tomlinson and his family opening up their home (100 years ago this month) to be the first dorm for the new Bible School that started in January of 1918. They practiced faith over medicine, something we would call foolish today, and even when some of the students became sick from the influence epidemic, they kept believing. One student did die in their home, but 20 to 50 million people died world wide, many of whom were under medical care. Yet, AJT proclaimed, we will believe in divine healing until we die.Yes, I do have health insurance and yes, I do take medication, currently my one prescription is a low dose of cholesterol medication once a day, not bad for 62. Yet, I have been the best hospitals in the nation and witness individuals who receive the newest and best treatment and care, but they still died of their sickness. Believing in medicine is no substitute for believing in God.
(I can’t decide which emoticon to use.) Bonnie,If a sex organ appears during prayer – where there previously wasn’t one – I feel certain God would grant a dispensation to pull it out and show it off.But – there had better be documentation that he really didn’t have one before. Otherwise – he would be just a perv.That’s just mho________________
Re: In medicine we trust…
Absolutely agreed. An neither one guarantee physical healin 100% a the time. I agree – some are delivered from sickness by faith and some are asleep – dying in the faith. We all are awaiting the resurrection when death and sickness will be no more. It is interesting, as I have watch the faithful in their final days, all the medicine and all the doctors and all the technology in the world does not kept them from death. We, Americans, spend more on medical care in the last six months of our lives (on average) than we do all the rest of our lives.
Mat,There are a whole host of diseases that we no longer face – that the church of AJTs time faced daily in their churches. See the attached link:vaccines.stanford.edu/documents/Disease_Reduction.pdfWhile we take vaccines to beat these diseases – they are no less from God than a laying on of hands miracle. God, through prayer, delivered that knowledge to the researchers who created these vaccines.It is not right to say in Medicine We Trust in a derisive way. More like, In God We Trust – In God we are humbly thankful to the one who revealed these cures to us.I am sure Dr. Luke picked up many healing cures during his travels that he could use extensively on all people – thanking God for the revelation.Remember – God said Heal the Sick. He didn’t limit the healing to one kind of way________________
NBF,I would disagree when it comes to parity between advances in vaccinations and healing through the laying on of hands (and the prayer of faith in the name of Jesus). I would contend (outside my use of hyperbole in pointing out the faith many people put in medicine – inside and outside the church), we in the ministry must focus on the spiritual dimensions of sickness and healing. I’m not a doctor, I do not play one on TV, nor should I play one in the pulpit or at the bedside in the hospital.The rhetoric I was using was to point out that there is divine healing and that most cases (in our church history or around the world today) cannot or is not documented by he medical establishment. Mat
Over the last two years I have had all my vaccinations updated – especially shingles and pneumonia. I see way too many of our members suffering from these maladies.[/quote]I have a friend who refuses to take shots. Says if God wanted him immune he would have made the immunity into a pill like HE did aspirin. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/