I had a conversation with a dean of a seminary after he’d preached a message, and said something about ‘going to heaven when you die.’ He said something I kind of knew, but hadn’t worked out of my active vocabulary yet. He said the New Testament never speaks of going to heaven when you die.
The idea of going to heaven when you die is at best inferred from just a little scripture, like a certain interpretation of II Corinthians 5. It is not directly taught in scripture. It is certainly not some kind of doctrinal emphasis in scripture.
The New Testament teaches and emphasizes the resurrection of the dead. Jesus taught the resurrection of the dead and argued for it against the Saducees. Paul said that for the hope of the resurrection, he was bound by chains. He wasn’t bound because of the hope of dying and going to heaven. When Paul writes or speaks of his hope, his hope is the resurrection and the return of Christ.
We who are in Christ wait for the return of Christ, the rapture, and the resurrection. That is our hope. Our hope is not eternal disembodied bliss in heaven. The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of God. The Jews often used words like ‘heaven’ to describe God, because at that time, they did not like to say the name of God out of their sense of reverence.
Our teaching and our presentations of the Gospel shoudl mirror the teaching and presentations of the gospel in the New Testament. We should speak of the return of Christ and the dead being made alive when we present the Gospel, like the apostles did, not dying and going to heaven forever and ever.
Paul wrote to the Thessalonian church that they should not grieve as them that have no hope. Did he go on to write about disembodied bliss in heaven? No, he wrote that the dead in Christ shall rise first and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. He wanted believers to comfort one another with words of the rapture and resurrection. He did not say to comfort one another with words of dying and going to heaven. So when confronted with the death of believers, we should comfort them with talk of the rapture and the resurrection as Paul instructed us to do.
It is ironic that in the past year or two, I’ve been to one Pentecostal funeral, one Roman Catholic funeral (first ever for me), and one Baptist funeral. The Roman Catholic funeral liturgy and speakes kept talking about the resurrection of the dead. I don’t think I heard a word about it in the Pentecostal or Baptist funerals, but plenty of talk of dying and going to heaven.
Totally true.
This is an interesting video. IMO, the video totally misrepresents pre-trib theology. The version of it I was taught doesn’t have believers in heaven for eternity, but rather returning to the earth for 1000 years. In fact, that is important for pre-trib pre-mil theology. Someone involved the video was quite ignorant, IMO, when it comes to the eschatology they critique.
But the video points out some major flaws with pop religious beliefs about he afterlife. The funny thing is, I tend to think of these errors of teaching and emphasis as coming from amil and post-mil folks and the video wants to blame pretribbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ln9Jq5Y-E
I haven’t dug as deeply as a scholar would but I have stopped telling folks about going to Heaven when you die. I grew up hearing it and, by default, believing it but the more I study Scripture the more I find it to be false. I tell my folks t view it as pressing pause on a movie or going to sleep at night. The space of time between you die and when you wake up is essentially the same as the time from when you pressed pause and then pressed play.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
John Conger, I’ve heard that passage interpreted to refer to the rapture. I’m not convinced. But I can see that ‘go to heaven when you die’ wasn’t something the apostles mentioned in the New Testament, and they taught and emphasized that other thing, the rapture and resurrection at the return of Christ. If we preach the same Gospel, we should emphasize the same thing. The resurrection is central to our faith, and Christ is the firstfruits.
In a lot of Pentecostal and Baptist evangelism, preachers seem to think they can get people saved by repeating a prayer without telling the people that Jesus rose from the dead. Preaching the resurrection of Christ, and teaching about our hope of the resurrection are things that reinforce each other and keep people focused on the Biblical gospel.
If you are pre-trib but you dont go to heaven when you die…….how can God bring us with him when he comes back. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 KJVS
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
I wish I had the text of Bill Thurman, PhD where he commented about that, I think it was interpreting the Greek to refer to gathering together.
I don’t embrace the soul-sleep theory, but I do see that the Bible doesn’t mention ‘going to heaven when you die’, and at best hints at it. This concept has gotten WAAAAYYY too much emphasis, to say the least, and has taken the place of teaching on the rapture and the resurrection. The New Testament shows us that our hope is that Christ returns and that we are resurrected, not that we go to heaven when we die.
I heard a sermon preached, back in my young, formative, impressionable years about dying, going to heaven, and walking on streets of gold. The streets of gold are a part of the New Jerusalem (the bride) which descends out of heaven after the thousand years.
Thats not about the rapture. I don’t believie the soul sleep theory is heresy but there is enough to support being with christ after death but before the resurrection. “He returns with the saints” remember.
John Conger, other scripture speaks of Him coming with holy angels.
When the saints go up, then come back down with Him bodily as well.
Youre making a lot of assumptions and dismissing a lot
We shouldn’t pronounce people “healed” when they die. We should focus on the hope which they welcomed from afar
Agreed. Death is still an enemy.
John Conger, what do you think I am dismissing.
This past Easter at Elevation church, Steven Furtick talked about how the fact Christ now lives in you was more important to us than the “mere historical fact” of Christ’s resurrection.
This is all i need to know about steven furtick
“To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” The body of our Lord Jesus Christ is not in a grave but has ascended into heaven. That is the place where all the saints go upon death.
back in 2004,5 listening to Adrian Rogers speak and then the details of what he had said to his family reassuring them that the moment he died he would be walking on streets of glory (a modern Christian cliche)
The more I thought on this the more I concluded he got it wrong. No one walks on a street of gold till after the resurrection. How could someone like Adrian Rogers get this wrong? Was it possible he was wrong about this?
Yes, I believe he was wrong. Time keeps on slipping into the future and stops at the resurrection, culminating with the total destruction of the elements of the world.
Our end to living culminates at the resurrection. That is when we bid this world good bye!
If we go to heaven when we die or we sleep till the resurrection, we wont know the difference.
Ricky, do you believe in consciousness after death?
This could open a whole discussion about whether or not ghosts (disembodied spirits) exist…
`Link Hudson, I wanted to avoid general discussions like this and keep with the group theme, thanks.
it is a theme worthy of discussion.
Yes i believe in consciousness after death Like rich man and lazarus.
https://rickwadholmjr.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/abandoning-heaven/