Is it off limits to discuss whether some of them show liberal/abortion loving tendencies? Or whether they promote alcoholic consumption in their classes? Or perhaps some other belief that might offend COG constituents that fund the schools partially with their tithe dollars.Or should we keep it a secret – and discuss it with the professors personally only – and when we make no progress on them changing their ways – should we then shut up about it – so no one outside of students and Clevelanders know what is going on at their COG sponsored institutions?Is it ok to show their online postings as a demonstration of their beliefs? After all, they did post it online. Since it was a posting of their thinking in a public forum, shouldn’t it be allowed to be discussed in other forums?Just wondering________________
The last few days …
The last few days I was following the Facebook drama you are referencing to. I hold the COG in high regard, along with Lee and PTS, as well your leadership. At some point those of you who pastor local COG congregations are going to have to either trust your elected leadership or disengage from the body general. I have met more than one COG pastor who says I’m part of them, but I’m not with them. Generally that means they don’t go to the assemblies or camp meetings, don’t promote Lee and PTS in their churches, and budget in a way that sends the least without being messed with. These pastors are developing their own networks, missions and ministries, with an eye on an exit strategy just in case. The conflict on the post was painful to watch, someone said it was like watching your parents have a fist fight. I know for you who have given your lives and treasures for the COG, its heartbreaking. Someone may have suggested the spirit at work is akin to the 1923 Split between the COG and AJT & CGP (I know how much you boys like to name evil spirits) . Now I understand that in the COG there is just one approved history book (LAMA), but sometime it would be good to study the life of J. S. Llewellyn and his influence on the COG during the time of the split. This is a man whose personal motto (according to historians) was rule or ruin and who was very litigious (some say the COG can be litigious, is that a legacy of Llewellyn) in his dealing with his enemies.MatPS Is it true that there are only two books that are required reading for a minister’s license in the COG – the Bible and LAMA?There has to been a process outside of social media in the hierarchical structure of the COG to deal with this problem in a more Biblical manner. Again, there is so much to admire about the COG, so I’m hoping you don’t repeat the past in how issues are addressed.
Re: Can we discuss the beliefs of Lee / PTS professors?
PTS
Liberialism and Anti- Pentecostal Culture at Lee
Edited.
Not worried about losing my career with the CoG so I’ll make some comments or Ask questions lol.If I were to read, learn to discover or be told from a trusted reliable source that these things are true, they are happening & in fact the author has merely skimmed the top I would be outraged. (not suggesting that you’re not telling the truth or that you are reliable, trusted.)We stopped suggesting our kids from our church go to Lee years ago.We learned about some extracurricular activities that were not acceptable & after our own investigation discovered they were true & unapologetic so we stopped supporting Lee.I asked a lot of questions and got a lot of closed door responses. I may not have a loud voice or a lot of students to send there but we can vote with our support.I have not heard or learned that this is tied directly to Pres. Conn but I am curious & would love to hear that it is less systemic & rather more localized. Maybe Eddie will have more to say shortly________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
This thread doesn’t intend to blame anyone.And while the events of the last few days did bring this up in my mind, I am talking about the several times over the last few years when my friends have questioned something about Lee or PTS professors – they were bullied into submission – about not being Christlike, not going to the person directly, etc..And the notion that – those of you who pastor local COG congregations are going to have to either trust your elected leadership or disengage – is the only recourse seems patently absurd. How would we even know what kind of job our leaders are doing if we can’t discuss issues that we see on social media or brought up by our students that attend there? If we discuss, we might see that it was much hullabaloo about nothing – OR – we might see a real problem that has crept up.So – back to the original post – If something is posted on social media – shouldn’t it be fair game to discuss – bring to light?If a professor attends a white supremacy parade (this hasn’t happened as far as I know)- and waves a NAZI flag during it, and posts a picture of himself or herself doing it – shouldn’t we be able to repost that on social, media to be discussed? Or must we only call the person – or the President of the university – and otherwise keep it a big secret – and potentially sweep it under the rug?What if they post a picture of themselves wearing a vagina hat?What if they post a picture of themselves consuming mass quantities?What if they post a picture of themselves singing out of a song book that isn’t an old COG convention book?Is it ok to repost and discuss________________
Eddie, I have tried to refocus this thread. I haven’t called out any President past or present. I just want to know if it is ok to discuss things posted by a professor, pastor, or real estate agent in an online forum – if that person has posted it on social media previously. To me – it is posted online as a proclamation of that person that should be in the public arena to be discussed at will.But I have been known to be wrong. Is it ok________________
NB I can only speak to my own opinion but it does include common sense.If someone has posted something on social media or allowed something to be shared in print media, that person, by virtue of their public communication has given permission for their business to be discussed publicly. I say copy & paste & lets all read what the matter is about in order to determine it’s ethical value________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
As a leader in the AG we have already experienced what the CoG is with our universities two decades ago. Our main seminary, Central Bible College was assimilated into Evangel Univ. Several yrs ago. Mission accomplished. Most of our universities are no different from many generic Christian colleges. As for Pentecostal distinctiveness it is barely alive if at all.Our answer has been to raise up regional schools of ministry that are Pentecostal and lower cost than traditional colleges. These are only good however if you are called to the ministry as you will only get a certificate not a BA. We have one of these at my church and have been producing Pentecostal/charismatic young ministers for the last 15 years. I encourage some of you pastors to consider doing that yourself. It’s not easy and costs money but it is the best thing we do and I am proud of our graduates. Some of them are doing great things for the Lord and are overtly Pentecostal. I am afraid it is the only answer to what you are describing at Lee. Lee is a good college but you might as well send your kids to Liberty university.
Based on the Excellent Minister Facebook drama, it is not ok to discuss social media posts, or you will hear from a lawyer________________
Did you read your GOs statement on The Excellent Pastor’s … Facebook page. I think he, and your elected leadership, is well aware of the issues, and has prescribed avenues to address these issues. If they were to override the correct policies, you guys would be crying for their heads for that. If you don’t like how they are handling/managing the issues, elect someone else who will do what you feel needs to be done, no matter what.
It has never been OK here to post a personal attack, and I think the thread may have been considered as such by some. A tweet was reposted in the thread, which some claimed was out of context. I have no personal knowledge of the person/situation discussed and have only heard rumors and stirrings. I was honestly surprised at the number of posts defending this person and standing up for their integrity and record of standing up for the COG and upholding COG beliefs. I think discussing problems at the school are OK but not when we mention someone by name. From what I’ve seen here in the past, that can be considered slander and can open up Doyle and the site for a lawsuit. I’ve heard rumblings about things that happen at Lee that are winked at but I’ve never heard anything about PTS until now. Discussing politics is a volatile thing to do at this point in the US, and anything we say probably needs to be handled with kid gloves________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
I had friends who graduated from Lee College Years ago. since then I don’t think I know anyone who has attended. I and most COG members think Lee is a great thing for the church and students.I don’t think we as members expect continual classes of COG doctrine. Shouting and tongues in classes, but we do think our teachings and doctrines are adhered to.We all hear stories about College Students both Religious schools and Public, but understand college age kids will act out. BUT as a member of the Church of God I do expect (and thought) any professor, teacher or leader would support and back the doctrine of a denomination that pays their salary, or have the integrity to move to a more liberal college that fits their standards.I’m speaking for my family here, and I would think for the average COG member. I would not be terribly surprised at a professor being hired and espouse some teachings contrary to our core beliefs, but I would expect leaders to correct the error.JMH________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Is there a feeling that education…
Makes ministers less Pentecostal________________