Glad I got rid of my McArthur leadership books when he ripped the Holy Spirit Strange Fire junk.I can’t trust anything the guy says________________
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
Glad I got rid of my McArthur leadership books when he ripped the Holy Spirit Strange Fire junk.I can’t trust anything the guy says________________
What brought this up________________
I think he misses the mark as well on Strange Fire, but I don’t see it as an attack on the Holy Spirit________________
A woman spoke at the Strange Fire conference________________
I guess that made it really strange________________
PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING STORY CONCERNING JOHN MACARTHUR AND HIS VIEWS CONCERNING BETH MOORE. I AM PLACING A SCRIPTURE BEFORE AND AFTER THE STORY TO SHOW WHERE JOHN MACARTHUR IS IN OPPOSITION AGAINST GOD AND THE SCRIPTURE – HE NEVER SPEAKS TO THE 5 FOLD MINISTRY – BUT ATTACKS WOMEN IN GENERAL and women DOING ANYTHING IN THE MINISTRY…And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
The idea of ‘strange fire’ as a metaphor for disorder in church goes back a long time in the Reformed movement. John Knox preached along these lines.The idea is supposed to be that doing stuff in church that the Bible does not instruct us to do is akin to Nadab and Abihu offering ‘strange fire’ before the Lord. They died of course, for using the strange fire from outside of the temple that God did not command them to use instead of the fire from the altar. And of course ‘altar’ in the Bible means a place for burning sacrifices or incense, not a place of prayer in front of a pulpit. The idea that doing something you are not commanded to do–in church– is an idea expressed in the ‘Regulative Principle.’ People in many of the congregations in the US that call themselves ‘Church of Christ’ will use this as an argument against musical instruments.It is a huge leap to assume that a passage about an activity done for atonement in the New Testament applies to activities we do for mutual edification in church. But if it does,
Where is Rafael when we need him.I like JM. Great Bible teacher. Few Pentecostals actually teach the word anymore________________
I think MacArthur is a brilliant scholar. Even brilliant scholars, however, get it wrong some times. John M is a cessationist and a five point Calvinist, which of course most Pentecostals are not. I am on board with him concerning a lot of the “extra biblical†excesses that he often speaks about, but I have a problem with the way he lumps all Pentecostals together with every extreme fringe group in the church, which is not fair to do IMO.One of the first books I ever read of his was “Ashamed of the Gospel†which contained a lot of truth, and dare I say could almost be considered ‘prophetic’ to a small degree________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
I think your feelings and perceptions of JM are shared by many of us. Great post________________
Sorry man. That would be strange fire. I hope his holiness MacArthur doesn’t hear about this and turn his wrath on you________________
JM has some mixed messaging – his church is named Grace Community Church, but sometimes he’s not so gracious to those he disagrees. However, when I read the various comments on women in ministry (and leadership) on COG pages, I also see mixed messaging. Also, there’s a reference to JM’s strong Calvinist beliefs, but I read postings by COG and other Pentecostals that seem to be supportive of Eternal Security, especially in cases of suicide. We have seem many raised in Pentecostal churches leave to attend Baptist churches where the HS gifts are not practiced and once saved always saved message is primary. Even in Cleveland, TN, the largest local church in town/county is a Baptist church which is populated by former Pentecostals, many of which were COG. JM way reflect more of the beliefs of COG members in the pews and some pulpits than we like to admit.
I agree with many of the comments here about the quality of MacArthur’s teaching. I especially agree with Da Sheik’s comment.
Never.That is a sad commentary.We had Dollas Messer on the local cable channel.Great response, at the end of the program folks would call in with questions________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
Re: Mixed Messaging – Grace or not?
Well if the issue is the security of believers who die as a result of mental illness, then thank God for this. Dave,I find post-mortem assurance of salvation to be more for the bereaved’s comfort than a function of the Gospel. Once this life ends, on our part it is speculation. We cannot preach the drunker in to heaven, though it is said alcoholism is a diseases, and we cannot condemn those we define as pharisees (you know, those old-time COG holiness folks) to hell (thou I have seen some try). The argument that if there is a one time confess of faith in Christ ensures that no matter what the future actions the individual takes we can assure the living that the dead are in heaven (or as Charles Stanley often says, once you take God’s hand He never lets go). If we follow Calvinism to its full course, it is only the elect who have salvation and and heaven. Sovereign grace is dependent on the Sovereign, not the preacher, so not even JM can guarantee heaven for the dead, no matter the cause. Even our good Baptist brethren will say, if a person who once confessed Christ returns to a depraved lifestyle (like homosexuality), they must not have been saved in the first place.Food for thought, but I still think its a love – hate relationship we Pentecostals have with JM and Calvinism in general. I wonder what the esteemed forefathers of the COG would say on the subject? What would Charles Conn say?
I am not suggesting, nor do I believe, that a one-time confession of faith guarantees one’s eternity (though I do hold to a properly understood Reformed view of the perseverance of the saints).
There is the point, mental illness which leads to suicide is not a saving grace or assurance of salvation. God is the judge on the disposition of the eternal soul of man, and suicide, for whatever reason, is not a back door to heaven. There may be many who are in heaven who died as result of suicide brought on by mental illness, there will be many in hell who died as a result of suicide brought on by mental illness. Just as all cancer victims do not have a free pass into heaven because they had cancer (my mom died of cancer at age 65, but what defined her was her faith in God before and during cancer), but there will be those who died of cancer in heaven.Will there be Women Bishops in heaven? Not in JM’s heaven!
You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not suggesting mental illness saves. I’m not suggesting it’s a back door. With respect, that is ridiculous.I do not think Jeffrey Epstein is in heaven because he killed himself.