The following resolution regarding Peace in Israel and the Middle East is presented by the International Executive Committee in accordance with a directive given by the International General Council at the 2014 International General Assembly which directed the International Executive Committee to act as a Committee of Action to bring back a resolution regarding Peace in Israel and the Middle East to the International General Council at an appropriate time:
Whereas, given the special place of the Jewish people in salvation history (Rom. 3.1-2; 9.4-6) as the chosen people of God through which the Messiah would come and all nations of the world would be blessed, including the blessing which accrues to the people of God through the Abrahamic covenant (Gen. 12.1-3; Gal. 3.7-9); and,
Whereas, the Holy Scripture and the Messiah, whose life and mission bless all nations, point to the Jewish heritage of the Christian faith (Mt. 1.1; Jn 1.17; Gal. 3.16; Heb. 1.1-2); and,
Whereas, as the followers of Jesus we ought to be ‘witnesses to Him in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria, and the ends of the earth’ (Acts 1.8); and,
Whereas, our God, the God revealed in Scripture, extends his grace to all people, that God causes his rain to fall and sun to shine upon the evil and the good alike (Mt. 5.45), and that Paul prays for salvation of all, not just for the Gentiles but also for the Jews (Rom. 10.1); and,
Whereas, the land of Israel has for many years been home to the descendants of Abraham; and,
Whereas, numerous Palestinians and people throughout the Middle East are devoted followers of Christ, brothers and sisters who have suffered owing to their faith (Jn 15.18-25; 16.31-33); and,
Whereas, since the foundation of the world, God’s intent for his creation is shalom (peace), and Jesus, the Prince of Peace, exhorts us to pray ‘thy kingdom come thy will be done’ (Mt. 6.10), and the author of Hebrews commands that we pursue peace with everyone (Heb. 12.14), and the Old Testament commands all to pray for the peace of Jerusalem (Ps. 122.6); and,
Whereas, Jesus promises blessing on those who are peacemakers (Mt. 5.9) and commands that we should love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us (Mt. 5.44); and,
Whereas, throughout its history this region has been torn apart by intensive suffering, oppression, and violence; and,
Whereas, modern Israel is a democratic state whose constitution guarantees the rights of all its citizens regardless of race, ethnicity, religious commitment or lack thereof, and that God instructs the Israel of Scripture that ‘You must follow exactly the path that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live, and that it may go well with you, and that you may live long in the land that you are to possess’ (Deut. 5.33);
Now therefore be it resolved that, we affirm our support of a political solution that ensures all the inhabitants of Israel and its neighbors peace and security; and,
Be it further resolved that we recognize the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign nation and pray for its peace and safety; and,
Be it further resolved that though decades of violent tension in the Middle East has brought intense suffering to Christians and Jews, we encourage and pray for the protection and security of all parties; and,
Be it further resolved that we stand with and pray especially for our Christian brothers and sisters, throughout the Middle East including many Jewish and Arab Christians, who have suffered and are suffering greatly in this conflict; and,
Be it further resolved that we support the work of Church of God ministries in the region involved in peace, justice, and reconciliation. We also support the active proclamation of the ‘gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek’ (Rom. 1.16); and,
Be it further resolved that we call upon all nations of the Middle East to change their restrictive laws with regard to religious conversion; and,
Be it finally resolved that we oppose any form of prejudice including anti-Semitism, racial segregation, and religious discrimination against any and all citizens of Israel.
October 15, 2014
About 2 miles, so there is a good influence in the area, despite the Mill report! ZELLWOODIANS BEWARE
Re: New preacher at Zellwood FL COG
We hyjacked the post, sorry.A few years ago we visited the Zellwood church for a worship service. Bro. Wayne CArter was preaching there that Sunday. Friendly worshipful people there.I don’t know Brother McGhee, been thru Citra but never stopped.Have a wonderful day… ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I have relatives in Citra. My uncles widow and a cousin. They do not attend a CoG________________Recorded Sermons @ http://www.pastorwiley.com
There’s some great names …
There’s some great names in the article, but a little confusing:Scot Peterson – is that the same name of police officer who killed his wives?Tim Burton – like the movie producer?To top if off, the shooter’s last name is Cruz. Any relationship to the senator from FL? I know he was adopted (along with his brother), but I would like to know more about his adopted parents and his birth parents.
Shoots holes in the theory that a good man with a good and stop a bad man with a gun. Maybe its time to reestablish mental health institutions. I remember passing Moccasin Bend in Chattanooga as a kid. I was fearful of that place and never wanted to end up there, or meet anyone from there (especially one with a gun).
A person taking a ‘cushy’ job, but not ready to answer THAT call, back up his oath that could have saved at least a few lives. BUT that is all hind sight now, my brother’s standard quote, One never knows does one?I think how often and how lightly in my life I have sang, thought and said, I will die for my Lord if need be. Then I see (REALITY) those Egyptian Christians lined up by the Mediterranean allowing their throat to be cut before they would denounce HIM. Then I realize how deep my oath/commitment must be to ‘STAND IN THE GAP’!YOU TOOK THE JOB, BE THERE WHEN THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD!Truth is, most people who take the oath, will back it up________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Are you are claiming this was a good man with a gun? He wasn’t. A sheep posing as a shepherd is not a good man. Try again. Running to a gun fight is never easy, even for the best trained – which I doubt he was/is/or ever will be now.I can’t see teachers and educators in this role either. They did not go to college to become armed guards. If there were some who would carry a weapon, and trained to engage a shooter, and have the grit to do so (that’s a big if), chances are they would be at the wrong end of the campus if the shooting started. I recall the church in Texas had an active shooter plan and had members who carried, including the pastor. They were absent the day of the shooting. If we were as bold and brave as we are (including me) in real life as we are on the internet, things might be different.
I have never ran to a gunfight. But I have taken an oath before, and took it very serious. I think
I think the guy was clearly afraid…I feel badly for the shadow he will live under until he dies…I can’t imagine the weight of that guilt.I certainly feel far, far worse for the people who dies and the families who remain…I was a LEO for four years when I was young.I have been in multiple situations where threat of life was a reality.One particular situation where I was ambushed by men with rifles – I ran toward them returning fire. I don’t know of anyone I worked with who would not have done the same.My point in responding to the above statement is that I think the majority of people on here would have responded to intervene in some manner – but then, I tend to think the best of people.We will never know who might have lived if, nothing else, he would have distracted the gunman by offering some sort of resistance.
YES, that will follow him for the rest of his life. Life’s choices are not always easy! And of course I feel for the victims he was paid to protect. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I doubt a single law officer imagines that he will freeze up or otherwise not do what needs to be done. But just a few weeks back, I saw a video of a law enforcement officer who was under such stress in what seemed to be a not-too-high-pressure of a situation, and he looked like he was about to have a nervous breakdown.Like most of us, I cannot imagine how that man will be able to even face those who would typically be most supportive of him–wife, children, etc. It’s something he–and they–will likely never live down. (I am assuming we are really getting the true story about his role, etc.).But when we get right down to it, I wonder if there’s more guilt to go around? I have a feeling that the sheriff may eventually be taken down, too. Why? Because (assuming he was in charge when it happened), he had men that did not seem to respond appropriately to the threat that the killer had presented before he ever headed for the school. When people are hurt, they often will lash out at anyone who they think played the smallest role.I agree with Cojak: Most teachers will be utterly inadequate to the task, I would think, of having to perform like a SWAT officer or military person. HOWEVER, in my role as a teacher, I found that a number of the teachers were often retired military types, or had even been in Iraq, etc. So THOSE guys, if they demonstrate that they have their head on straight, might be quite useful. The key, I think, is NOT just how they will respond, but that if a killer knows that there are multiple armed men/women in the school, it might give them pause (although, the fact that there was an armed officer at Parkland did not seem to slow the killer).
Re: Shoots holes in the theory …
If you get shot on the Internet, you can rejuvinate and have three lives left________________
Teachers and educators did not go to college to be armed guards, or to stop armed assailants. They might be unwilling to attempt that task, and we should not require them to do so.
Agreed. Don’t require anybody. But those that want to be armed – should be allowed to be armed – concealed of course. At least when a gunman comes charging down the hall and the teacher wants to protect his students – he has something to slow the shooter down with________________
Agreed.Whatever happened to my day – where if a dude had a beef – and pulled a knife – everyone around would tell him to fight like a man – and he would drop the knife and fight with fists. And several dudes had 22 rifles in their truck gun rack – a no one even remotely considered going to get it – no matter how bad his butt was kicked________________
Did I miss where someone said teachers should be required to be armed? I know Trump said there should be bonus incentives for them to do so and that those who did should be well trained, but I didn’t see or hear where he said mandatory or required.
I personally am very much in favor of allowing teachers to volunteer to carry concealed and be specially trained in security. I think it also is a good idea to consider posting armed guards in schools. Metal detectors would be a good idea too, as unbelievable as that sounds to my middle-aged ears. There really is nothing more precious than the lives of children.
Seems positive. I haven’t seen it but I don’t see it as hurtful! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I’ve discussed/debated something similar in other forums…While I am not not particularly a fan of some listed as leading, nonetheless…How is this decidedly different from the idea of invoking a blessing such as in Numbers 6? (Yes, I am aware it is the Old Testament…) And then in the New Testament to primary mission of the church in Matthew 16where we are called to make binding that which shall have been made binding in the heavens???
I’ve discussed/debated something similar in other forums…While I am not not particularly a fan of some listed as leading, nonetheless…How is this decidedly different from the idea of invoking a blessing such as in Numbers 6? (Yes, I am aware it is the Old Testament…) And then in the New Testament to primary mission of the church in Matthew 16where we are called to make binding that which shall have been made binding in the heavens???How is this decidedly different that praying/declaring thy Kingdom come thy will be done on earth…? Agreed________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Sounds like 2 Chron. 7:14 in action to me.Don’t see where prayer could hurt.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Sounds like more of the same NAR agenda to me. Like all of these types of “groupsâ€, they mix a little bit of truth in with a whole lot of unbiblical dogma to sweep in the unsuspecting. http://www.828ministries.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Dutch-Sheets-Displays-New-by-Anthony-Wade-Faith_God_Prophet-170429-510.html________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
You seriously thought that article was excellent? I get it – that you don’t like the weirdness that many seem obsessed by. But this article is born of a bias with no scriptural support for his points. It’s, unfortunately, the typical pulpit rah-rah that causes folks to get excited and shout amen because someone other than them is finally get called out.I could go point-by-point, but surely you believe we are no longer slaves but sons? Surely you believe we are joint-heirs with Christ, that we sit together with Him far above all rule and authority and dominion?I’ll touch on, briefly, just one point:
Nothing wrong with thy Kingdom come thy will be done on earth being prayed. In fact, it is right to pray that.Is that what they are praying?Is it ok if God’s will be done makes the USA a holy nation? Would that be His will? Or is it His will to make those with faith lots of money and possessions?Just making sure we are only asking for His will – not our wants________________
One thing is clear, Deut 28promised old covenant Jews that, if they kept all the commandments, they’d have lots of money and possessions. This is why the by-standers asked: If the rich can’t be saved, who can?Our covenant is better than that one. So the debate over whether a better covenant means more money and possessions continues________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
There was a time when denominations were a great resource for all kinds of ministry, but they are not needed any longer. At one time they were needed for publishing curriculum, youth camp facilities, camp-meeting facilities, missionaries, structure etc. Now there are plenty of Christian publishers who do a much better job, Christian camps and meeting centers are everywhere, and missions organizations abound outside denominational structures. I have heard the argument that denominations provide great fellowship for laity and ministers. Not as much as you would think. I am much closer to other pastors in town than I ever was with COG pastors. In fact, once you are no longer a pastor in the COG, you are persona non grata. My uncle had to retire early from a COG pastorate after an accident. He was part of the in crowd before the accident. After the accident, only two ministers even called him to check on him. All those relationships were surface-only. One more story. I pastored a COG congregation that had money in the bank. When I arrived as their new pastor, they said we want to build another bathroom onto the parsonage – it will cost $11,000. I said do you have the money and the plans? Yes, they said. So we voted to build it. After the bathroom was built, my District Overseer drove by and saw it. He asked me if I had received approval from the state office. I said no, I didn’t know I had to since we weren’t borrowing any money. He said he was reporting me to the overseer and he did. He then called me and told me that the overseer wanted a letter from me apologizing for not getting his approval and to assure him I was on his team. I did just that and never heard anything else. I knew then – this is nuts!
In most denomination (at least Pentecostal), the DO has become an un-welcomed intruder in other local churches affairs. A fellow pastor in the same area who as no power, but reports you to your supervisor is your advisory.You should have received a letter of commendation from you State Overseer for making improvements to the church property instead of you having to explain yourself and swear you allegiance.
This is the present reality.When we left back in 1989, we were told by our former DO that we would never make it.He was wrong.We have everything and more than any denomination could offer.Over the years we have politely refused invitations to join up with more than one denomination.It;s a strange situation, Church of God folks who will not bow to Cleveland (cenralized government).You can make it, without Cleveland and her overseers. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
I ‘teethed on COG benches’ was at one time a saying indicating that you were raised in the COG. My dad was an early pioneer COG preacher from the 1930’s. I grew up loving, admiring and proud of the COG. (Although many times I wished dad had been Baptist, I personally did not like being ‘That Holiness Preacher’s boy.) YES that is a big contradiction, but that was me.In my dad’s 50+ years as COG pastor I know of only one ‘problem’ he ever had with administrators. That was personal, a promise not kept, not a church problem.I pastored a very short time also. I NEVER had anything but good to say about my leaders while I was ‘on the job.’Times have changed, even the OTCP would have to admit the pastoral fellowship among pastors has all but disappeared. District meetings used to be crowded ‘pep rallies’. Preachers went to Camp Meetings and the GA for the fellowship as much as business. My Florida pastor who became a lifelong friend could not say ENOUGH GOOD about the (can’t think of the name?????) ‘pastor’s care groups’ that met monthly on his district here. He felt like it was a life saver.I am conservative by nature. I never had an office down town. I considered it a waste of money. My pickup and basement were good enough. I remember visiting the new AG HQ in Missouri. As a young COG preacher I thought ‘the money could have been better spent.’ Our COG offices, General and State were much more logical.THEN years later as a friend and successful business man I was given a tour of the NEW COG HQ & Missions complex. WOWThen our NC state office I have seen pictures, know the location, worked on the Overseer house. WOW!I am still conservative and think of much more logical space and use for the finances. BUT we must compete evidently. Less interacting between churches and ministers and more overhead expenses. That leads to the rise of a desire for congregational or independent churches.Yes, there will be more and more independent churches. There are many reasons, some good some bad, but the situation is still there.Just my thoughts________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Where are some …
Where are some of the former Church of God congregations that are now independent? Maybe an informal list of churches over the last 20 years.
If the General offices don’t hold the title deed
Then there is nothing to hold them save denominational loyalty________________
Or a local church sees value in the relationship. With so many resources available in ministry – as was mentioned (missionary networks, publishers, training conferences, etc) and with denominational identity taking on a more generic approach in hopes of being all things to all people, there are less reasons to stick. Many local church members do not even know who they are affiliated with and have no since of church history.What’s funny to me, is often when I meet an independent pastor he launches into an explanation of the network and covering their church is part of. When I meet a denominational pastor, he’s slow to reveal what denomination he’s in.There has to be a workable balance between the two.
So the money has strings attached?Look at it as an investment in the Kingdom________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Brad freeman,
In ANY grouping of folk (from 2to 2 billion) they is gonna be stuff what happens that harms, grieves, damages, tears down, diminishes, etc. There will ALWAYS be nepotism among some. Deception, lies and coverups go all the way back to Cain/Abel. The actions of a few do not reflect the whole. A few bad experiences with an AB, a DO, a fellow minister, etc., don’t reflect the whole of the COG.
Re: Where are some …
just saw the double triple entry sorry ab that. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I have a terrible cell system here sorry about the repeats. too anxious to click I guess.________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Debt
We have about a dozen who have gone through the process over the last 1-5 years & it has changed since I went through it back in 1981.You can do the course work via internet.You can order the DVD’s & do it at your own pace.Calif. requires all candidates to attend 3 on campus meetings at our state office ministry center at the old West Coast Christian College campus.The last time I checked the course runs about $600 & each candidate who wants CoG credentials has to submit an application for the federal background check which I do believe is around $100. There might be a couple of small fees I’m not recalling but overall the whole thing is thorough & well put together.It def helps to weed out those who are not serious about getting CoG credentials. (btw, MIP is not in itself an automatic application for credentials. Each candidate still has to make application for their exhorters which they can do simultaneously.)If a candidate for credentialing is coming from another recognized denomination then many times the CIMS/MIP requirement is waived. ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Sounds like a great cause my friend. I remember hearing something about this somewhere in the past. However this is the most I have read on it. Imma looking at the web site. Thanks for posting. Prayers of course. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
ME TOOO (’bout what?’) ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
It’s been tough sledding…
Blows my mind that people just don’t see how things have been manipulated., When voting for the last 5 pastors for Riverhills the council was always shut down and not allowed to put more than one name on a ballot to vote. It would cause strife amongst the congregation and it would make the one who didn’t get the vote feel bad, etc. We always had to vote on one speaker at a time. I know for a fact that a lot of the congregation liked the first gentleman that came and spoke and I think if a vote would have been done on him alone at that time he would probably had a good chance to be the pastor but they had the church vote on 3 men including RS. Now you tell me that wasn’t done on purpose. PLEASE like the sheep isn’t just going to automatically vote for the person that has been throwned at them for the last few years by the existing pastor. That is all this current congregation knows. RIGGED!!!!!!Face it, There is so much to cover up over there financially and other issues that have been swept under the carpet they really had no choice but to make this happen.
Centralized government, ya gotta love it! ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
It’s been a few years since we had a big juicy like this one lol.Thinking back to the former Jamboree CoG in Irvine …what a mess that whole thing was.These things have a way of working themselves out …don’t let it take you down or discourage you to the point of quitting.The Jamboree thing made me really question a lot of things but a voice of common sense stepped in & helped.Praying for you.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
99 out of 100 evangelical American churches. 100 out of 100 Churches of God
99 out of 100 evangelical American churches. 100 out of 100 Churches of God(but none of them insist on doing it the OT way) So true.Almost all of the grace preachers I know, still hang onto legalism when it comes to $$$$$________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
I can’t speak for what others do, of course, but I can say that neither myself, nor my late father, nor my late grandfather (both of whom were AG pastors with nearly a hundred years’ experience between them) ever taught tithing like so many I’ve known. We never have made it a condition of salvation. I have unfortunately known many who have made it such, by saying things like, “You’re robbing God if you’re not a tither, and God won’t let thieves and robbers into Heaven! You are cursed with a curse if you don’t tithe!†Instead, we have always just
99 out of 100 evangelical American churches. 100 out of 100 Churches of God(but none of them insist on doing it the OT way)
The church teaching of tithe for years has used that scripture. My dad preached giving and you will be blessed.I still believe that. I think our lives here prove it. Being a HS drop out and married at 17 my chances of success were small. I do attribute our success to Godly giving!My wife believes in the TITHE as she was taught in the COG for years. She believes it so strongly I would never argue with her because there is nothing wrong with giving 10% +.Threats and physical conditions have always bothered me.I have a friend who pastors a large Baptist church in my small town on Tithing is not required under the NT.Some of the most beautiful ,Godly examples and stories are in the Old Testament. Great faith and moral building Stuff. But we are no longer under the LAW! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
There has always been a question in my mind. If the majority is so sure, why is it not a condition of Membership? ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
[quote=Da Sheik]We rebuke those who would push an agenda of Judaizing here and rightly so. But by the same token, how many of us try to use the law as prooftext for tithing and the tithe of tithe? Something to chew on. I know it’s not a popular opinion but I’m getting to the age that my filter doesn’t work as well as it used to. [/quote]Yes sir, I agree!!😀, i stand with Y’shua & you😉, for Y’shua rebuked the Pharisees in Matt 23:23for not *obeying* the weightier matters *of the* 😇Law/Torah😇 concerning the tithe 😉In the Torah, Gen 14:20, in this Bible verse, Melchizedek comes out to meet Abraham, as Abraham gives him a tithe of the spoils of victory. How did he know how to tithe, Who told him?ðŸ˜Gen 28:20-22, Jacob’s vow to G-d giving Him the tithe of what he receives from The Promised LandLev 27:30-32the Command(vs34) of the tithe in the Torah/Law🤔**Deut 26:12-15** G-d gives instructions on how Y’srael should sanctify the tithe before they *ask* for a Blessing 🤔😉 vs 15 This goes with Mal 3:8-10There are so many other verses on giving, offerings, First Fruits, tithing, they all stem from the Torah/Law. They are G-d’s *Instructions* 🙂Shalo________________Ps 122:6
Under Levi, the old covenant, you tithe to be blessed.Under Melchizedek, the new covenant, you don’t tithe to be blessed – you enjoy victory, communion (bread and wine) and blessing BEFORE you tithe.Gen 14:17Then after his return from
Under Levi, the old covenant, you tithe to be blessed.Under Melchizedek, the new covenant, you don’t tithe to be blessed – you enjoy victory, communion (bread and wine) and blessing BEFORE you tithe.Gen 14:17Then after his return from
I don’t tithe because of some no longer applicable teachings from the Old Testament. Nor do I tithe because my pastor teaches that we ought to tithe. I tithe because I understand that it takes money to minister to others on a regular basis. I tithe out of a grateful heart and wish to impact others who are as lost as I once was.Disclaimer: I used to hold firmly to the idea that God requires us to tithe a tenth of our income to the church. What changed my thinking was when I fully understood that since God no longer required me to obey the rest of the Law, why was I still following this one commandment________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
How many of you guys on this thread teach and/or practice the lifting of your hands in worship? And is it something you would suggest to other followers of Christ?
A thought or two or three:
Giving is a tough topic. I cannot affirm the teaching of tithing to the NT church, and it makes me
God’s plan for Tithe. I’d like to visit when you do this.Deuteronomy 1422 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
God’s plan for new covenant giving:2 Cor. 9:7
God’s plan for Tithe. I’d like to visit when you do this.Deuteronomy 1422 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. They obviously do not preach God’s plan________________
Well I ain’t taking the bait!But I can remember when Lee was a little college, most COG preachers thought LEE was the BEST, I am not sure when Lee became accredited! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Re: Question about Degrees/Credits…
I would respond, but I thought DD meant Doctor of Doctors, what do I know. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I work for a Technical/Career College. I have also worked for multiple traditional colleges. All of the schools I’ve worked for have been accredited. Here are a few points that I hope will help, but also end the beating of this poor dead horse on this forum. 1. There are multiple types of accreditation. They are important to ensure your educational institution is peer reviewed. 2. Accreditation ensures that students can receive Title IV funds (Financial Aid) from the government. Unaccredited schools cannot receive Title IV funds. 3. It is always up to the receiving institution as to whether or not to accept transfer credits, even from another accredited or unaccredited institution. I once worked for a state university that would refuse certain credits from a community college that was 20 minutes away… Why? It wasn’t the same class. If you took Math 102 at school A, then school B must recognize it as the same requirements or learning outcomes to accept it as a transfer credit. So yes, accreditation is very important, and if anyone is so obsessed with titles, degrees, or recognition, they should just put in the hard work to earn an accredited degree or diploma________________———My Facebook http://www.facebook.com/theB3
Not sure if it answers the questions but I know of 2 accredited schools in the DFW area (DBU and SAGU), that both accept credit from CFNI. There’s a word for that type of transfer but I don’t feel like looking it up
OTCP is good for the cog in my opinion. He made many aware of a serious problem. Unscrupulous pastors who use fake degrees to impress churches that they apply for. There is a trend among many applying for church positions to throw a fake degree on the table as qualifications. A standard church board would not know how to discern a real doctorate from a fake. If you want proof of how damaging fake degrees are look to the Smokey mountain children’s home they got popped by the state of TN for having an using unqualified unaccredited degree holder in executive position. http://www.themountainpress.com/homepage/smoky-mountain-children-s-home-dissolves-position/article_c15409da-2e1b-5c58-8c52-d2d0577dfcae.html
SFM, I can’t tell ya, son, how glad I am you posted this article. An this is the very kinda stuff OTCP has been referencin. Hey, if all the preachers in the COG what claims/uses the title Dr was checked out (not incudin them at Lee/PTS, cause I guarantee ya they verify credentials), it would be revealed that half of em was not legitimately accredited.
OK, Aaron made the motion an SFM seconded it, so OTCP will address the issue. Here is the deal.1. An undergrad degree (bachelor) is primarily 120 sem credit hours.2. In some cases, legitimately accredited schools will allow a minimal number of credits to be awarded in an undergrad program for either life experience or from an unaccredited school. This is always a case-by-case basis, so there is no guarantee it will happen. It would seldom be over 1/4 of the program. When this happens, 3 years of solid quality education is still earned and the degree is from an accredited school. That’s if it happens at all. An I guarantee ya folk that this has happened to, once they get the accredited degree, don’t ever again mention the unaccredited hours unless they have to.
Because he’s good for nothing!!! Accreditation is the emperor’s new clothes. There is no way an accreditation agency can TRULY determine (at least not in an annual site visit, etc.) if a university is up to standard. Just can’t.It’s very similar to the scam that plays out across elementary, middle, and high schools every year: A teacher is evaluated as highly-effective, effective, or not, based on a SINGLE FORMAL VISIT to the class by an assistant principal. And–get this–the teacher knows WELL IN ADVANCE when the evaluator will be there. In fact, the teacher can even tell them what period to show up! You better believe that we try to hit the highest levels on the evaluation rubric! But even though it is well-intentioned, it has two very deep flaws:1) The obvious one: It’s a dog and pony show where a teacher that has been mediocre all year, suddenly dazzles…and where, on the other hand, an otherwise great teacher, can have a bad day and get a less than stellar rating.2) It’s so subjective that an evaluator can give you virtually any rating and be able to justify it. I can tell you that I have certainly benefited before from a glowing evaluation when I didn’t feel I had actually knocked it out of the park (even with advance notice!). And I’ve had evaluations that sat me back on my heel, since I thought I had indeed done a superb job, but the evaluator did not think it was worthy of the highly-effective rating I SO RICHLY DESERVED!The same happens at the university level…except it’s worse. Why? Because accreditation agencies are PAID by the universities to accredit them. It is a major conflict of interest. I mean, who wants to call a university utterly deficient, when that’s going to lose the accreditation agency thousands of dollars a year, as well as, perhaps spawn a backlash that discredits them?So, along with the conflict of interest, there is the rank subjectivity (which is almost always going to go in the university’s favor, except for gross infractions).So, let’s say that you have you have your bishop certificate, but I come with some sort of scam in which I advertise: You have dedicated yourself to the study of the Word, you have attained an exceptional level of excellence. We think that ministers of your caliber should be nationally and internationally recognized for their excellence. That’s why you–yes, you!–can become a charter member of the most prestigious ministerial association in the world and have your ministry recognized as one that adheres to the highest levels of excellence and integrity. For the unheard of price of $400, your ministry can gain the recognition and the networking power that an international…. Blah, blah, blah.Accreditation does NOT mean you received a great education. And non-accreditation does NOT mean you received a bad one. It’s just that the accrediting agencies have the bluff on everyone, making them think that if it’s not accredited BY THEM, then it’s largely worthless (or as OTCP like to say, has limited utility).It’s not wrong to seek to attend a university with accreditation. It DOES get accepted far more often than attending a non-accredited school. But it’s the END RESULT–and ONLY the end result–that determines the worth of your education. You may not make as much money if you have a non-accredited degree. You might have trouble shopping it. Etc. But you may STILL have an education that is far superior to what someone got at a fully accredited school.If it’s about utility, yes, get an accredited degree. If it’s all about the money, you might do the same. BUT, if it’s about the quality of one’s education, that can happen at an accredited OR non-accredited school…or no school at all. But for some, they have built accreditation into an idol of sorts. It doesn’t matter the effectiveness of the person’s education, it doesn’t matter how good or how long they have served…NOPE, the ONLY thing that matters is to score a gotcha over something that does not at all tell us how good your education is.
Aaron, do you hold any academic degrees?
Consider a Business School…
The only teachers are Jack Welch, Jamie Dimon, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, and Warren Buffett. Every sane business school candidate would give just about anything to be a member of this school.UNFORTUNATELY, this business school would not be accredited, since, to my knowledge, none of the above have a doctorate. That means that EVEN IF THIS SCHOOL WOULD TROUNCE EVERY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE ACTUAL AND PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE OF THE PROFESSORS, IT CANNOT BE ACCREDITED (or almost certainly would not be).Now, let’s move over the a graduate school of politics. Your teachers are, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Queen Elizabeth II, Putin, etc. Sorry, can’t be accredited. Few, if any of these have a doctorate.So, let’s step over school of Fine Arts and stop by the music department. We have David Gilmour, Eddie Van Halen, Dolly Parton, Colm Wilkinson (look him up), Carrie Underwood, etc. You get the idea. Alas, that school will not pass accreditation.The point is that someone who studied under these teachers would almost certainly come away with as good–or, more likely, far better–outcome than someone who went to an accredited university. That doesn’t mean that the accredited university is worthless. It simply means that being NON-accredited does not mean that the education you receive is not as good or even better than what you might receive elsewhere.I’m not saying this because I’m trying to justify my own education. My degrees are accredited. BUT, at the same time, I don’t look down my nose at someone just because they have a non-accredited degree. I am not impressed with the name of the school, so much as I am impressed with the product.
Aaron, that’s a fact, and 9,999 times out of 10,000 you’re going to get a junky education from an unaccredited institution and a good education from an accredited institution. There are always going to be exceptions, but exceptions make a poor foundation for a worldview.
NOTE: Being non-accredited is not the same thing as a degree mill
A degree mill does not care who you are, what you know, what you’ve done…they only care that you send in a check.A non-accredited school may be the most diligent school around, for all we know. Consider that many of you may have gone to private schools for a year or more. Would you declare that a private school (which, at least back in the day, did not at all have to abide by many state standards) was inferior to public schools? I can tell you that not only are some private schools superior to some public schools, but in some cases are superior, perhaps, to most public schools.So…why doesn’t that same thinking hold at the collegiate level? Why do we applaud homeschoolers in many cases, but in the next breath, act like a non-accredited university is little more than a degree mill?
Ole Aaron was slick on this post. He thought cause he included the name David Gilmour, OTCP would alter his position. At was slick, Aaron. Nope, ain’t gonna happen.
Well, looks like we done stopped Goliath from Gath Unaccredited Seminary of Dagon. Send em four brothers a his now, we’ll take them out too.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2016/november/this-is-what-it-looks-like.html
Agreed.Never met one Christian that wasn’t sick of the state of affairs we are in – but do hope for the best.Get tired of the holier than thou’s taking pot shots at everyone though.Real tired________________
I hear where you’re coming from, and I get it. To be fair, I haven’t heard of any of our tribe excusing Trump’s behavior. Now, if Trump had been running against Mitt Romney, it would have been easy to make the selection, since I KNOW WE ALL PREFER A REPROBATE OVER A MORMON!!! (Not really.)But as it was, Trump was running against someone that was not just someone who wasn’t quite our cup of tea, but someone almost diametrically opposed to our views. I don’t consider her evil, but she was way out in left field for most of us.I imagine some voters DID have to find some way of justifying their vote for Trump. But while I wish Trump would not tweet, would just let some things go, etc., I have to admit that he has done several things that I deeply appreciate:1) A conservative Supreme Court justice.2) A tax overhaul.3) Is independent enough to stand up to the NRA on some modest changes that the NRA likes to pretend will eviscerate the Constitution. Nope. It just eviscerates the outrageous positions that the NRA has staked out for itself.
What grieves me is not the personal lives of the rich and famous, presidents and well know personalities. Rather I grieve over the lifestyle of the church where on a daily basis pastors seeking popularity will not speak to how wrong divorce without Bible cause is, and how it hurts the Body of Christ.Do we really expect our politicians to live a more moral life then our preachers?I cannot account for the king and his fiery furnace, I can only account for my life before the idols of our culture.
I voted for Trump. It has been said over and over again, I have NOT READ NOR HEARD a Christian who voted for Trump excuse his language nor lifestyle.What I do get over wroght at is the line used now over and over and over is ‘Alleged’ . Now ANYONE with a high profile can be accused of ANYTHING 10-15-20 years ago and THEY ARE GUILTY!It is alleged that a lady who accused Trump had her mortgage paid off for her ‘support’. I am not sure I believe it.I will not fight nor argue about an affair with a porn star, but so far there has been no hanky panky in the White House.He doesn’t drink, smoke, had never sucked on a weed etc…. But that doesn’t count either.If the writer or anyone else on here is expecting to see someone run for president that is pure, you may wait a long time.Yes the moral values of this country is down. But you don’t have to go too far back to see why. We have had only one president in the recent past who claimed openly to be a Born Again Christian. He was a good man, but most people say he was the worst president they ever saw.Enough.. I have vented. I am not justifying my self. I don’t have to. I voted for the one I thought would do something with the countries sinking economy. It benefits everyone. I did not vote for a Pope or King.Just me… And I know I make no sense. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I re-read the article. I get confused. I see no answer in the article other than pray for better wiser men of good morals to run the country.I declare to heaven I do pray for that. I doubt there is one here who does not do that. What I need is answers when a question is raised. I mean an answer that makes logical sense to me. Not a pie in the sky answer, but one that fits the present or recent past dilemma and gets the perfect outcome.This country lives by the vote. It is a good process. Money has gotten in the way but in reality it probably always has, there is just more of it to spread around. But I have one vote, it is mine. Using what I have as grey matter I try to do the best with it. The writer’s answer is prayer, as far as I can see.WE DO THAT DON’T WE? I say you are throwing away your vote if you decide the other candidates are morally unfit, privately and publicly, so I write in Paul Conn. Others say they vote their conscience. Fine, it is their choice. Mine was to pick the one I thought was the best chance to win that came closest to my political beliefs.Now I find myself praying for him. He has made some very good financial decisions, but I pray constantly for him to rein in his twitters and tongue.That ain’t working well either.________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I was at an AG and an independent church before I came into the COG, and neither would give me any direction as to how to become involved in ministry. The COG opened pulpits, credentialed, trained, and ultimately provided more than one church for me to pastor. So, my story is, while I don’t say I owe them anything, I do hold a debt of gratitude to the COG________________
I’m thankful for the
Agree wholeheartedly________________
The happiest moments in my life would almost certainly not have taken place had I not been part of the COG.Traveling with my dad to revivals.Getting saved, baptized, and filled with the Holy Ghost in Churches of God.The life-long friendships that came from connecting with people in the Church of God.My best friends were members of the same Church of God I was.I got married in the Church of God…to a Church of God girl.Incredible roadtrips, vacations, etc., courtesy of the friendships I developed in the Church of God.The wondrous years of attending the Florida State Camp Meeting–the music, the preaching, the glory, the joy!And as far as pastoring in the Church of God, I owe that to them, too. (Yes, it’s one of the smallest ones in the state, but it fits me.)And all you scoundrels on here–I wouldn’t have know of you, been able to educate you, been able to rebuke you and cast you out…without the Church of God.
Thanks Aaron. I don’t see things quite like that, but I respect the point of view________________
According
As a member now, I still migrate to the COG. That is all I ever knew. Most of my childhood my dad pastored churches that paid a salary from offerings and tithe, so I do owe a debt of gratitude for that. My dad did not call me to preach, I think I did that my own self. But I just loved COG people because they were like minded. I am grateful I was allowed to pastor. I disappointed a lot of folks when I quit. But I would not stay and hurt these wonderful folk.Now that I am back in the church, I migrate to the COG because I consider them my family. /We attend many different denominations and independent. Mega churches and churches of 10 people, I feel at home. I do not feel Quite at home at an AG or other Pentecostals, I have met wonderful friendly folk at other churches. But at a COG I feel at home.I know a big part of that is because for 17 years that was all I knew, I cannot change that. So yes, I sorta feel I owe the COG for a worldwide family. Had I been raised AG I would probably feel the same toward them. I am speaking for me of course, history makes a lot of difference.. PS: When I would receive orders in the military and my dad found out, his first call was to pastor or pastors in the area. I have been so blessed because of that network. COG pastors have BLESSED my life. Even the ones I have met on ACTS. Aaron even invited us to to dinner. Truman did in Indiana. Great food and Great company…. Family________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
it is not fair, but in fact you are right in many cases, but not all. I know one young man who was preaching at a very small church and when an official visited the church and heard him, he went from a non paying church to a full salaried church; within 6 months of being recognized as having potential. He eventually was picked for state youth director of a large state. He had NO name recog. nor family ties.It happens in business, church and politics. It is easy to recognize it in our church. Look at the names on the general council and it is obvious. Most of the men/women promoted because of name were talented. Some not so much. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
The picture seem to be coming into focus. From the responses so far, it seems that entire existences were/are connected to the COG. As a result, people feel grateful, or indebted to the denomination. I attended a COG from the time I was born, until I was 8. Then a Methodist Church, from 8-15. We moved to another town when I was 15, and attended a Disciples of Christ Church. I started attending a COG, by myself, when I was 17. In college, I attended an Assembly of God church, but went to the COG, when I came home. I never went to youth camp. Never went to camp meeting________________
I have no doubt a dedication comes from EARLY EXPOSURE. I used to hear quoted all the time, attributed to the Catholic Church. Give us a child for its childhood and they will be Catholic all their lives. That statement is probably near 90%+ true. (if the experience is pleasant!)I know PK’s from my youth who have said they would NEVER attend the COG. The saddest experience I HAVE EVER HAD was at small amusement park with our kids and I spotted a young man I had admired from my childhood. (HE WAS THERE WITH HIS WIFE AND KIDS) He had played the trumpet in the COG Orphanage Band, he was GOOD! I couldn’t wait to tell him how much I had admired him and his talent.In our conversation he said he couldn’t wait until he could leave the orphanage. He told of beatings, abuse and ‘biblical punishment’ (SPAR THE ROD SPOIL THE CHILD) that left him sick and sore for days. He was assigned to the upkeep of the barn. His punishment took place there by COG (ministers/workers).YEP that would turn you away.But my experience (other than being the ‘holiness preacher’s boy) was great. I had the best family in the world. my dad was fair, honest and Christian. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Not trying to be condescending, but my question is why? For what? How long will you owe? Is it one of those things where I owe a debt, I can never repay? Are you a bond-servant? Committed to the COG, for life, for all its done for you?Its a point of view that is drastically different from my own, and I like hearing from people________________
This might sound arrogant, but I certainly don’t intend for it to. In my lifetime I feel I have given just as much (if not more) to the COG than it has given me. But I don’t think of it in those terms. We are in a covenant of sorts, so there are expectations of both parties.
Totally understand. The other night on here, I typed out my whole experience, at my first church. It was a rebuttal to the You should be grateful that the COG let you pastor a church line I’ve heard in the past. But I realized no one was lecturing me about gratitude, so there was nothing to rebut. :________________
In my situation a simple apology from the GO at the time would have gone a looooooong way toward smoothing things out.The CoG does not owe me anything, it does owe my wife’s family an apology though.All those years working to raise money for YWEA. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
Somehow, I get the feeling – this will only follow Hollywood’s version of the Bible. With lot’s of gotcha’s for how bad God is – like why he created Super Gonorrhea, etc..________________
There could be a positive side to this, generating more conversations on the subject.Of course the sway will be HOLLYWOOD that is what’s happening. That is where all the knowledge is. Otherwise why would their political opinions be sought out for headlines?me ‘n y’all ain’t gonna decide what is in the script, I just betcha! I never watch TV so I will wait here for the reviews. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I watched about 6 minutes of it and deleted it from my dvr and upcoming recordings. . . .Dont waste your time and hopefully it will be cancelled within a few week________________Pastor Mike IPHC Pastor
The program sounded like a ‘Religious Cheers’, I’d probably like it. But I haven’t watched tv more than 4 hours in the last 10 years. I cannot hear that fast, nor read that fast if it is closed captioned.I just can’ believe OTCP is so judgemental! I bet the priest and the Rabbi have REAL DD’s behind their names too! Shucks ABC can’t do nothing rite! But they is tryin’, evidently Fox don’t have no Bible programs! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Hannity doesn’t count??
Hannity doesn’t count?? I don’t know Hannity either, but I don’t think he is a Sitcom. I should have made that cclearerer. Sorry DD YOu guys are so blessed being able to watch TV and learn this stuff. We have two BRAND NEW (Two years ago) of them new TV here in the motor home and they are never on.My problem is, I am probably tied to this PC as much or more than others are tied to TV. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I think Fox News is the Bible to some people. God help us all!
BUT, but (to quote Aaron). But, but what I read from Fox is much better than I read other wise.I do wish more folk would pay attention to ‘Sean-of-the-South.’ He is mostly Good News. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I just now watched the pilot on CBS online. It was humorous. I realize it was probably just for added comic effect, but the priest implies that living biblically means one is obligated to keep the Law of Moses. I think bradfreeman would get a kick out of the show.It is important to note that the pilot at least does not represent the man as having had a conversion experience. I have no idea how the rest of the season will develop, but the pilot appears to be a guy who is a lapsed Catholic simply trying to use the Bible as a moralistic guide to a better life. It was pretty funny when he interpreted the scriptural command about stoning adulterers to mean he should hit his adulterous coworker in the head with a rock.
I thought it was great.It is not theology…it is no apologetics.It is culture’s view on God not Christianity.I thought it was funny…in particular the scene where he stoned the adulterer.
About 2 miles, so there is a good influence in the area, despite the Mill report! ZELLWOODIANS BEWARE
Amen! Not to mention that
Amen! Not to mention that he never resorted to gimmickry or theatrics. Not even a hint of phony gold dust. All he ever did was preach Jesus and Him crucified. If only more would have emulated his ministry philosophy, perhaps the focus today would be more about eternal souls than the latest rock star hireling________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Re: I was 5 when I went to a Billy Graham Crusade
That is exactly what I am saying, Doc. Do ya do docters degrees like at too? Nope.Our ministerial candidates complete the School of Christ as taught by B. H. Clendennen.Also, having Iron Mountain close by offers opportunities to sit under the instruction of Dollas Messer.Plus the BEST preachers to be found speak at SPWC regularly.Several of them are Church of God Cleveland, TN. No degree mill here.I don’t believe in it. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
That is exactly what I am saying, Doc. Do ya do docters degrees like at too? Nope.Our ministerial candidates complete the School of Christ as taught by B. H. Clendennen.Also, having Iron Mountain close by offers opportunities to sit under the instruction of Dollas Messer.Plus the BEST preachers to be found speak at SPWC regularly.Several of them are Church of God Cleveland, TN. No degree mill here.I don’t believe in it. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
the most publicized in NC was Paw Creek. Joe C. did not get the property but did take most of the congregation. I think he is doing ‘ok’ and a good solid COG is in place at Paw Creek.One in Mt. Holly, The state relinquished the property and members.Clermont, FL was lost due to DEBT Millions. I think the pastor took the remaining members independent. I enjoyed that church when we visited. It was unusual. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
the most publicized in NC was Paw Creek. Joe C. did not get the property but did take most of the congregation. I think he is doing ‘ok’ and a good solid COG is in place at Paw Creek.One in Mt. Holly, The state relinquished the property and members.Clermont, FL was lost due to DEBT Millions. I think the pastor took the remaining members independent. I enjoyed that church when we visited. It was unusual. Since I’ve been reading this board I remember a congregation in Savannah, GA being discussed, one in AL and the latest larger congregation in Chattanooga. I guess if the denomination retains the property and some of the members, but the pastor leaves with some of the members and goes independent, it is just a split not the whole church going independent.
Was it supposed to be in anyone else’s hands________________
With DD first, then since MW left, correct________________