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"Our problem is Authoritarianism and Not Legalism" (L)

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Post subject: bonnie knox: "Our problem is Authoritarianism and Not Legalism" (L)
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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Wade Burleson has come out with a new book (which I haven't read yet) called


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Post subject: brotherjames: I read Wade's comments about legalism
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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vs authoritarianism. He makes a valid point but I for one do not sense a vast number of abuse of authority issues in the church today, whereas legalism STILL is an abhorrent doctrine that harms many people today.I lived in the Cleveland, Ohio area and pastored there for many years. In the late 70's and early eighties. It was a hotbed of the charismatic movement in those days as the FGBMFI was a major force taking the Holy Spirit into the Catholic, Episcopal, Luthern, and many other denominational churches and thousands were birthed into the Kingdom there. I was in the leadership of that movement at the time even though I eventually joined the AG and got my credentials thru them. I was one of those birthed and called. The problem then was that so many of these people that were coming into the Kingdom were from backgrounds of authoritarian, hierarchal type churches that they wanted their leaders to fill that void for them. They needed to be discipled and they wanted people to tell them what to do. Ern Baxter, Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, and Don Basham filled that void with the Shepherding Movement or as they preferred to call it, the Discipleship movement. Don Basham was from Cleveland and one of his disciples, Larry Tomszack lived in my town. He and a friend started a church near me and it grew quickly. THe people in that church and in the churches overseen by the leadership of the Ft Lauderdale 5 as they became to be known, were told what jobs to take, who to marry, where to live and nearly every aspect of their lives was dictated by the leadership of their church. This was NOT the original aim of the leaders but it evolved into it and the people wanted it that way. I dealt with the destructive problems this doctrine caused in so many people over the next 15 years it was unbelievable. Beyond that, it stemmed the tide of growth and left a bad reputation for other Pentecostal or Charismatic churches. Then we had the issues of the scandals of Swaggert and Baker to deal with in the mid 80's as well but I digress.Eventually the movement collapsed of it's own weight and bad teaching and Bob Mumford wrote major article for Charisma in which he apologized for their mistakes. I have not seen much of an issue with abuse of authority from leadership since. Oh sure, there are individual cases but I don't see it as widespread. Is the model of Senior Pastor taught in church growth seminars, well it was. But, Lead Pastor is the preferred term and a new paradigm is taught. Servant Leadership is the correct model and the one I see most of the time. There is a problem however. Where Wade sees a lack of accountability and inability to question leadership, I see the opposite. It seems to some that leadership is not to be trusted and should be questioned at every opportunity - from doctrine to how the church is managed. Respect for the office much less the leader is often lacking.I chalk this up to the problem of our elected officials lack of integrity, etc. When people feel their lives are ruled by people who can't be trusted to do the right thing, it will naturally seep over into their relationship with the church leadership. It also comes from the mistrust and resentment that the working class has for the management class - blue collar vs white collar. And, the Pastor is seen by much of his congregation as Management, ergo mistrust is called for.On the other hand, legalism will kill you, Legalism is still taught, practiced and encouraged in way too many churches and not just in America. And in an insidious way, legalism has the effect of squashing freedom and imposing the authority of the leaders upon the people. So, I would have to disagree with Wade's statements.


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Post subject: bonnie knox:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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It's there. Wade Burleson specifically points out the 9Marks model as being contrary to the model of the priesthood of the believer with authority coming through the gifts and workings of the Holy Spirit and not through offices in the church. The 9Marks model is pretty popular. The Baptist seminaries are putting out pastors who follow this paradigm.


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Post subject: bonnie knox:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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I think this demonstrates what Burleson is addressing. Authority doesn't come through an office.Wade Burleson:There is no emphasis in the New Testament on authority that is derived from any office or position. Let me repeat that again: Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that a Christian, because of title or position, has moral authority over another Christian. The idea of an 'office' of authority in the church, like that of the office of 'President of the United States,' simply does not exist. Christ alone has the position of authority in the church and He has no vicar on earth but His Spirit, who resides in the life of every believer. The King James Version unfortunately translates the Greek word diakonia as office in Romans 11:13, but diakonia is always elsewhere properly translated as service or servant. Christians serve others and any leadership in the church flows from this selfless service and oversight of others; pagans seek offices that grant authority so that their leadership (lordship) over other people is inherent to their positions or titles.


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Post subject: Resident Skeptic: Re: "Our problem is Authoritarianism and Not Legalism" (L)
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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Looks good. Thanks for sharing


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