A divinity student named Fiddle Refused to receive his degreeHe said, It’s bad enough to be Fiddlewithout being Fiddle, DD.I got that from Jon Ruthven. I’m not sure where he got it________________
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A divinity student named Fiddle Refused to receive his degreeHe said, It’s bad enough to be Fiddlewithout being Fiddle, DD.I got that from Jon Ruthven. I’m not sure where he got it________________
David Lewayne Porter RE: ” New Testament giving is shallow.”
>>>>>> Shallow? Hmmm, let me see, one of my teachings on giving…
>>> Continuing my simple series called; “Lies About Tithing.” Here is lie Twenty Three…
> Lie – “The only reason Anthony Todd is against tithing is because he is against giving.” Or; “people who oppose tithing are cheap stingy people.” Or’ “Non tithers are just looking for an excuse to be greedy.”
> Truth – A few people, when I post these comments called “Lies About Tithing,” have made claims such as this to me;
“In all honesty this seems to be a pet issue for you which causes me to think you have an issue with giving.”
That was an actual answer to one of my posts.
In reality, I have made it VERY clear that generous free will cheerful giving is taught in the Bible for all Believers. All Christians are to learn how to be cheerful givers.
>> There are three main areas of giving, they are…
1. Giving as a praise to God because God is worthy of the greatest possible praises in every way we can!
2. Giving to help the poor, the destitute, and anyone who has a need.
3. Giving to support the work of the ministry.
As posted in the past…
>> We are NOT to be tithers, we are to be free will givers, like this…
2 Corinthians 9:7, “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; NOT grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”
Luke 3:11 – “And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.”
Luke 6:38 – “Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”
Acts 20:35 – “In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.”
Romans 12:8 – “…Or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.”
Philippians 4:15-17 – “And you yourselves also know, Philippians, that at the first preaching of the gospel, after I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving but you alone; for even in Thessalonica you send a gift more than once for my needs. Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit which increases to your account.”
James 2:15-16 – “If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?”
As you can easily see, we are called to be givers, but there is NO tithing mentioned in ANY of the scriptures on giving listed above. Not even a hint of tithing! Hopefully, that will put to rest any idea that I do not believe in giving.
>>> Further study on giving…
1. The Bible commands believers to give:
Pro.3:27 – Withhold not good from them to whom it is due
Pro.3:28 – Say not, tomorrow I will give; when thou hast it by thee
Mat.5:42 – Give to him that asketh thee, &…would borrow
Lk.3:11 – He that hath two coats…impart to him that hath none
Rom.12:13 – Distributing to the necessity of saints…hospitality
2. God blesses us when we give:
Mat.6:4 – Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly
A. Spiritual blessings:
Pro.11:25 – The liberal soul…he that watereth shall be watered
Pro.13:7b – (He) maketh himself poor [gives], yet hath great riches
Pro.14:21 – He that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he
Mk.10:21 – Give to the poor, & thou shalt have treasure in Heaven
Acts 20:35 – It is more blessed to give than to receive
B. Material blessings:
Deut.15:10 – For this the Lord shall bless thee in all thy works
Pro.11:24a – There is that scattereth, & yet increaseth
Isa.58:10,11 – If thou draw out thy soul to the hungry…the Lord… shall satisfy thy soul in drought
Lk.6:38a – Give, & it shall be given unto you; good measure
Lk.6:38b – With the same measure ye mete it shall be measured
3. Giving to God’s work:
A. When we give, we are giving to Jesus:
Mat.25:40 – Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me
B. When we give to God’s work, we are investing:
Pro.19:17 – He… lendeth unto the Lord; &…He will pay him again
Lk.10:30-37 – Whatsoever thou spendest…when I come, I will repay
Phi.4:17 – Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit (saved souls) that may abound to your account
C. God will pay us back for sacrificial giving:
Pro.22:9 – He…shall be blessed; for he giveth…to poor
Pro.28:27a – He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack
Eccl.11:1 – Cast thy bread upon the waters: thou shalt find it
2Cor.9:6b – He which soweth bountifully shall reap bountifully
4. Christian duty regarding giving & sharing:
2Cor.8:4,5,7 – As ye abound in every thing, in faith…in love…see that ye abound in this grace (giving) also
Heb.13:16 – To do good & communicate (share w/ others) forget not
A. Obligation to support fulltime workers & missionaries:
Rom.15:27 – Their debtors they are…their duty is to minister unto them in carnal things
1Cor.9:6-11 – If we have sown unto you spiritual things…we shall reap your carnal (material & financial) things
Gal.6:6 – Let him that is taught communicate (share materially) to him that teacheth
1Tim.5:17,18 – They who labour in the Word…the labourer is worthy of his reward (wages)
(See also 3Jn.7,8.)
B. Examples of giving to needy fellow Christians:
Rom.15:26 – Pleased them…to make a contribution for the poor saints
Gal.6:10 – Do good…unto them who are of the household of faith
Phi.4:15,16 – [Paul said:] Concerning giving & receiving…ye sent once & again to my necessity (See also 1Cor.16:1; 2Cor.9:12.)
C. Everyone to give according to their ability:
Deut.16:17 – Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the Lord…which He hath given thee
Acts 11:29 – The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren
1Cor.16:2 – Let every one of you lay in store [set aside to give], as God hath prospered him
2Cor.8:12 – It is accepted according to that a man hath
David Lewayne Porter RE” Wow Anthony Todd…”
WOW, David!…enjoy what I posted above^^^ (Y)
Also forgot, David Lewayne Porter…
>> The answer to your question regarding Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek is actually very simple. First, you must take time to read the entire context of Genesis 14:8-24, plus also read Hebrews 7:1-10. After reading these passages, you should take time to go thru them, and determine who paid tithes, where did the tithes come from, to whom were they given and why.
> Genesis 14:8-12 The kings of Sodom and Gomorrah (Plus their allies) fought a battle against king Chedorlaomer king of Elam (plus his allies). Chedorlaomer king of Elam and his allies won the battle and took all the food supply and other goods from Sodom. They also took Lot, Abram’s nephew, and his possessions and departed, for he (Lot) was living in Sodom.
> Genesis 14:9-17 The incident was reported to Abram and he took 318 of his trained servants and defeated Chedorlaomer king of Elam. The Abram brought back all the goods, and also brought back his relative Lot with his possessions, and also the women, and the people.
> Genesis 14:18-20 After his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer, Abram was met by Melchizedek king of Salem and a Canaanite priest of God Most High, refreshing them with bread and wine and he blessed Abram. The blessing was given to Abram, a very important fact to remember. In response, Abram gave ONE-TENTH (10%) of all the goods of Sodom that were stolen by Chedorlaomer to Melchizedek. Abram did NOT tithe from his own possessions, an essential fact to refute tithing practices in the new covenant.
> Genesis 14:21-24 The king of Sodom offered to give Abram all the goods of Sodom that were recovered for himself, but Abram refused, taking not one single item, to give honor to Yahweh, lest people say this pagan king of Sodom made him rich. This is a very important point, because Abram took NO INCOME and the tithe he gave to Melchizedek did not come from his goods, but those of the Sodomites and 1/10 of Lot’s recovered goods.
>>> CONCLUSION: If Abram’s aforementioned encounter is used by your pastor to justify the practice of tithing from one’s gross income, then he is justifying Christians paying 10% of goods and money they do not own! Even worse, paying tithes this way means they have to find someone who has be robbed and recover the stolen goods. For example, if jewelry was stolen in a burglary, the tithing Christian must first return the stolen goods to the rightful owner, who must not be a Christian, (in keeping true to the symbolism of Abram and Melchizedek) and then use 10% of the recovered goods as a tithe to the church. This is an outlandishly absurd example and it ought to be ample proof for rejecting this false doctrine of church tithing. There are a few other reasons why Abram’s tithe to Melchizedek cannot be used to justify church tithing as a practice.
To answer my question Anthony Todd…
There you go again.
I did not ask a question of you concerning giving in any of the 13 New Testament ways.
Nor will I.
And by the way you have handled the scriptures up to now, nor can I.
I am not wasting my time on your posts, seeing you butchered it with the first 3 books.
David Lewayne Porter RE: “Oh I have your scripture. ”
GOOD; Show me SCRIPTURE instructing a Christian to tithe; Book, Chapter, Verse.
I await your reply.
Time to stop acting childish and learn a little, David.
>>> Here are many reason why tithing does not fit into Christianity, and never will…
1. Tithes, all three, were paid to the Levites, with some of the tithe consumed by the tither, and some of the tithe given to the poor and needy. The focus was surrendering the tithes to the Levites; do you know any Levites you can tithe to?
2. Tithing was established and commanded by God in the Law of Moses, sometimes called “The Law,” “The Commandment,” or “The Torah;” no matter what The Law was called, we as Christians are not under The Law, we are therefore not required to tithe.
3. Tithing was primarily established by God to support the Tribe of Levi and their Priestly duties; there are no Levite Priests ministering to the New Testament Church, no Priesthood to support, no need for tithing.
4. The tithes were the personal property of the Levite; God has never transferred ownership of the tithes from the Levite to any Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Church, other Ministry, or anyone else.
5. Some tithing teachers claim that we should “tithe as Abraham did,” there is no scripture in the entire Bible, New or Old Testaments, insctructing Christians to tithe as Abraham did.
6. All tithes were restricted by God to be fruits, vegetables and clean animals from the Promise Land grown or raised by farmers and ranchers; how many Christians do you know who are farmers and ranchers living on the Promise Land? The tithe is tied to the land Israel received under the Old Covenant. The tithes did not come off of any other land except the Promise Land.
7. God never instructed or permitted Gentiles to tithe.
8. No Apostle ever instructed tithing, asked for a tithe, rebuked any person or church for not tithing, or received a tithe. Not one of them. The early church (i.e. Book of Acts) NEVER tithed. We have NO record of them doing so.
9. After the death of Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law, the New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system, or any other tithing examples.
10. The New Testament talks about the importance and benefits of giving. We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the body of Christ.
11. Malachi 3:9-10 does not apply to us today, it was written to the Nation of Israel and the corrupt Priesthood. We can always learn about various truths and principles from any part of God’s word, but that does not imply that scripture such as Malachi 3:6-11 is directly speaking to us as Christians. Some scripture is speaking diretly to us, as Christians, some is speaking indirectly to us; unless, of course, you believe we should all be buiding boats such as Noah did?
12. Nowhere is tithing mentioned when commands to give generously are found in the New Testament.
When Christians are instructed to give to the poor, they aren’t commanded to give “the poor tithe.” Instead, they are instructed to be generous in helping those in need (Acts 2:43–47; 4:32–37; 11:27–30; Gal. 2:10; 1 Cor. 16:1–4; 2 Cor. 8:1–9:15). For example, 1 Corinthians 16:1–4—a passage often cited in popular circles in support—doesn’t mention tithing; it relates to a one-time gift for poor saints in Jerusalem.
Abraham tithe before the law. But he did on his own but not commanded. God then said he would bless him
Jesus commenced his followers fur tithing of they’re Mint and Cummings but scolded then fur mittding the greater things of the law. Taking care of orphan and widow
.
>>> The false teaching is that Abraham freely gave tithes because it was God’s will.
For the following reasons, Genesis 14:20 cannot be used as an example for Christians to tithe.
(1) The Bible does not say that Abraham “freely” gave this tithe.
(2) Abraham’s gift was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land gathered by God’s holy people under God’s holy Old Covenant.
(3) Abraham’s tithe was only from pagan spoils of war common to many nations.
(4) In Numbers 31, God only required 1% of spoils of war.
(5) Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek was a one-time recorded event.
(6) Abraham’s tithe was not from his own personal property.
(7) Abraham kept nothing for himself; he gave everything back.
(8) Abraham’s tithe is not quoted anywhere in the Bible to endorse tithing.
(9) Genesis 14, verse 21, is the key text. Since most commentaries explain verse 21 as an example of pagan Arab tradition, it is contradictory to explain the 90% of verse 21 as pagan, while insisting that the 10% of verse 20 was God’s will.
(10) If Abraham is an example for Christians to give 10% to God, then he should also be an example for Christians to give the other 90% to Satan, or to the king of Sodom!
(11) Since neither Abraham nor Jacob had a Levitical priesthood to support, they had no place to bring tithes and probably left food for the poor at their altars.