GO Tim Hill posted this article regarding the Tithe of Tithes…goo.gl/WAaE0m________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
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GO Tim Hill posted this article regarding the Tithe of Tithes…goo.gl/WAaE0m________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Thanks, Carolyn, for posting that link
Re: Thanks, Carolyn, for posting that link
________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
What I find interesting is that a full 25% of revenue is earmarked for General Operations. That is way too high a % to dedicate to administration given the current economic climate. You do that in the competitive auto industry where I worked and you will fail. Miserably.The COG is facing a real dilemma here. They obviously need every nickel they can get their hands on, while the source of their revenues is desperate for relief. It’s apparent that revenue isn’t going to be increased substantially, so the expense budget must be slashed. That means some tough decisions must be made soon. Time for some sacred cows to be turned loose. Of course, none of this has anything to do with TOT,but one look at that budget pie chart surprised me________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
I was always smaller business, I have no idea how the pie should be cut, but as was mentioned above it is nice to see some conversation about the financial pie.Government: fed, state, local or church must monitor itself because the animal is self perpetuating. Governments(admin) on taxes can go far a field, but church government should be held accountable because it is strictly on DONATIONS. Some church folk who pay attention, even have friends who are serving in ‘created positions’ to keep the person from ‘being forced’ to serve as a pastor again. I have two friends now who are serving and do not plan to pastor again. Just sayin’, at least the GO is willing to put the pie out there. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Though I am sure there are other reasons also, I imagine a lot of this is influenced by struggling churches. Many of our churches would be considered small (less than 100 in attendance.________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Amen! I liked Bishop Hill’s comment about exposing the gorilla sitting in the corner of the room. Let’s get it out there and find ways to fix it________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Though I am sure there are other reasons also, I imagine a lot of this is influenced by struggling churches. Many of our churches would be considered small (less than 100 in attendance.)
Several years ago, when one of the General officials was then a state overseer, he said something at the state ministers meeting I will never forget. He was lamenting how many churches did not pay the TOT and said all churches must get current in three months or else. One young minister stood and said Brother Overseer, I was just appointed a year ago to a church that is over ten years behind in their TOT, but since I have been at the church we have paid faithfully every month. The church owes ten’s of thousands of dollars and we only have 25 people. I inherited a mess but am doing my best. I can’t even get a salary. I hope you don’t mean that we have to catch up the entire ten years – I’m doing it the right way now, but we can’t pay it, and I’m sorry. That overseer (now a General official) said you will either pay it or I’ll appoint a pastor who will.
Though I am sure there are other reasons also, I imagine a lot of this is influenced by struggling churches. Many of our churches would be considered small (less than 100 in attendance.) The facts do not support that statement. Small churches give their TOT. Look at your state reports and you will notice that it is larger churches that typically have N/R I doubt that is true in every state. And it’s hard to tell since the larger churches that are recognized as such have sent in their reports. I looked at a few different states and the only common theme I saw was Hispanic churches (only recognizable by the Spanish name.________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
What a shame. It probably was not meant as a direct challenge to what the state overseer had said, but in any case, the state overseer apparently took it that way and felt he had to talk tough lest those present might doubt he was serious. Had the young pastor spoken privately with the overseer, I imagine the tone and substance of his response would have been far different. State overseers absolutely have latitude as to how they deal with things like this. I know for a fact that they will work with a local church and pastor to help them deal with circumstances such as this. In any case, the overseer in the above scenario obviously should have handled that better. Probably should have said something like, I would be happy to sit down with any struggling pastor to see how we can help. Very good comment QW! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Though I am sure there are other reasons also, I imagine a lot of this is influenced by struggling churches. Many of our churches would be considered small (less than 100 in attendance.) The facts do not support that statement. Small churches give their TOT. Look at your state reports and you will notice that it is larger churches that typically have N/R I doubt that is true in every state. And it’s hard to tell since the larger churches that are recognized as such have sent in their reports. I looked at a few different states and the only common theme I saw was Hispanic churches (only recognizable by the Spanish name.)
The arrearage for the term of 10 years was not the previous pastors fault. It is the overseers fault for letting it go that long. The overseer should have taken this action on the previous pastor long long ago.
Quote from the article:
Though I am sure there are other reasons also, I imagine a lot of this is influenced by struggling churches. Many of our churches would be considered small (less than 100 in attendance.) The facts do not support that statement. Small churches give their TOT. Look at your state reports and you will notice that it is larger churches that typically have N/R I doubt that is true in every state. And it’s hard to tell since the larger churches that are recognized as such have sent in their reports. I looked at a few different states and the only common theme I saw was Hispanic churches (only recognizable by the Spanish name.) Typically, I know in at least 4 states that if your report is LATE, they also mark you as N/R. Late by their cut-off date .. even if they receive it a day later, it is marked as N/R
What a shame. It probably was not meant as a direct challenge to what the state overseer had said, but in any case, the state overseer apparently took it that way and felt he had to talk tough lest those present might doubt he was serious. Had the young pastor spoken privately with the overseer, I imagine the tone and substance of his response would have been far different. State overseers absolutely have latitude as to how they deal with things like this. I know for a fact that they will work with a local church and pastor to help them deal with circumstances such as this. In any case, the overseer in the above scenario obviously should have handled that better. Probably should have said something like, I would be happy to sit down with any struggling pastor to see how we can help. I was in a similar circumstance at my first church. We were appointed and started sending in TOT, immediately. Not long after that, I received a letter from Cleveland saying the church was 13 months behind on TOT and we needed to catch up.I was unaware of our delinquency, so I called the Bishop. He told me we would have to catch it up. I didn’t think think that was fair because, he should have taken action before I arrived. Further, there was no record of giving for the months preceding my arrival. I had no means to determine how much we owed. Ok, we need to TOT…..15% of…..what? Long story short, a State Council member went to bat for me, and the slate was wiped clean. For the entire time I was there, we never missed a report and never failed to pay TOT. Overseers can and should work with pastors who are not responsible for delinquencies in reporting________________
I think the point being made is that the overall picture of how many churches are not sending in TOT, cannot fully be ascertained merely by looking at the list of reporting and non-reporting churches. This is because as far as the denomination receiving money from a local church, there is a big difference in receiving the money a day late and never receiving it at all.