I say generally speaking because I’m sure most all of us would acknowledge that in any group there will be some who genuinely come to saving faith in Christ, and we all have all probably personally known non-Trinitarians that evidence the fruit of saving faith. Our buddy Resident Skeptic would be an example.But with that said, denial of the Trinity has historically been considered an error so severe that it puts adherents outside the Christian faith, and virtually all of its significant manifestations (Sabellianism, Arianism, partialism, tritheism, etc.) have been specifically condemned as heresies.
In my view, having had fairly extensive personal experience with Oneness folks, I consider them certainly confused theologically. However, I am unaware of any place in the New Testament where affirmation of the doctrine of the trinity is stated as a condition of salvation, notwithstanding later creedal statements, correct as they may be.
QW is right.Oneness folks believe in Jesus. What else is a requirement in your Bible________________
I believe people there are people saved in the UPC but
Great observation (and from QW and UncleJD too). I think this gets to what QW was saying about consistency. I’m inclined to think that if a non-Trinitarian critically considered the implications of consistently holding their beliefs and chose to hold them anyway, it would be impossible for them to be inside the faith. But at the same time, I believe if a true believer did that, they would invariably turn from the error. And so perhaps you’ve got folks holding these unorthodox beliefs, but inconsistently, and God graciously working in them despite those beliefs. And thank God we are not saved by our theology, since none of us have perfect theology or hold our beliefs with perfect consistency.Great feedback, gentlemen… thanks for the input.
I doubt you could find anyone within common orthodoxy who holds this view.
So no I do not. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
The doctrine of the trinity may be absolutely correct…but it is not without LEGITIMATE debate on the matter. Over and over, in the scripture, Jesus uses the term MY God. Yes, you can argue that that was Him speaking in His humanity, but He also said these things AFTER the resurrection–in fact, on the Isle of Patmos!It’s not that the trinity is not true. It’s that the church INSISTS on it, despite it being so weak. I realize that the church is trying to avoid the errors that would arise if we do not endorse the deity of Christ, but when a doctrine is as weak as the trinity, you cannot fairly demand submission to that doctrine.Yes, we KNOW that Jesus is God (John 1:1). What we DO NOT know is precisely how the Son and Father fit together. But that did not stop us insisting on this doctrine, and calling those who saw it another was as heretics.If I recall my Church of God history, R.G. Spurling thought that the Council of Nicea was a departure from what God wanted for the church; namely: that the church deal with these things in love instead of by fiat.NO ONE–and I mean NO ONE–can prove the Trinitarian doctrine without overlooking or explaining away a number of scriptures. And that is why it MUST NOT be used to decide the question of whether one is in the faith.
[quote=Aaron Scott]The doctrine of the trinity may be absolutely correct…but it is not without LEGITIMATE debate on the matter.
Oneness folks refer to the Father, Son and Spirit as three
Some might say the rapture. ________________
________________
My wife, who is absolutely a Trinitarian, teaches at a Christian school that is run by Oneness Pentecostals, UPC. They are sweet people. They love Jesus. The biggest issue with them isn’t the theological differences, it’s their hard “clothesline†dress beliefs, at least on a practical level.Most of the teachers are Trinitarian, as well. Baptist, COG, and even a Catholic. I think on a basic level, evidenced in the way they pray, they get tripped up in semantics. They teach the Oneness thing, but they pray to the Father, by the power of the Spirit, in the name of Jesus. They still differentiate the Godhead.They occasionally let the students know, my teen daughters included, that we are in error (especially in bible class). When challenged by my 16-year old (respectfully), who referred to her “ordained minister Dad†as a Trinitarian, she was told I was in rebellion. Oh well________________The World As I See Itworldjeffreysees.blogspot.com/Revuriah’s Facebookwww.facebook.com/people/Jeff-Richard/1226257444Jeffrey David Richard’s Myspace Musicwww.myspace.com/547856946
Who got up to speak and said, Are there any oneness people here?Several people in the crowd raised their hands.He said, We will wait while ya’all leave.After they left he said, Now that the devil is gone, we can have church.Even as a very young teen, I thought this was out of line. Especially for a teacher with the Bible committed to memory________________