Acts20.com NEW Acts-Celerate

Those are questions that need to be asked and DEMAND answers.

That can’t be real. If it was, you should talk to the Overseer and state council. There is no provision for a state office to use proceeds from sold properties to pay salaries. Now, if particular property is sold and the state office paid to cut the lawn, pay the mortgage or utilities while the defunct property was being sold, that money should be recouped by the state office and spent however it likes. That is fair and addressed by the GA. There is no provision for the state office to recoup monies from the expenses of property A from the sale of property B. That should not happen in any state. The General Assembly passed clear direction on that. I cant imagine a state doing that. If it is, the state council should address it. They are responsible for that as well…not only the state Overseer. We know what the GA rulings are. We just have no power to enforce it. How can we sell multiple buildings and still have almost nothing for church planting. If you use the word misappropriation you can be destroyed. So

The number 1 listed responsibility of the state council is oversight of this specific money. A state overseer AND a state council are to appropriate money in the manner directed below. It’s a General assembly mandate. It simply says what it says. Both offices have a job to do…doesn’t mean it’s easy. But, it is very clear.

That looks really good on paper. When you see an AB taking cereditials of anyone that opposes him you either let him have his way, hold your peace or walk away. How can a state councilmen hold an AB accountable unless he is more connected to the COG system than the AB. I’ve seen them try to absolutely no effect. I’ve also seen a couple Councilmen that carried enough influence to do it more effectively.

They spend the money from SOLD Property on anything… property, payroll,

That looks really good on paper. When you see an AB taking cereditials of anyone that opposes him you either let him have his way, hold your peace or walk away. How can a state councilmen hold an AB accountable unless he is more connected to the COG system than the AB. I’ve seen them try to absolutely no effect. I’ve also seen a couple Councilmen that carried enough influence to do it more effectively. If an AB rules with an iron fist they are not looking for Council. Unless it helps them get their way. I don’t think an overseer can just take someone’s Credentials. Brother I wouldn’t be posting under a pen name if that was true. He can take your credentials. He can take your church. We must be in 2 different denominations. We call it the COG graveyard in our state. We had a state leader challenge the AB about removing a pastor from his church with no notice to be told I’m the AB and can do whatever I want to do. And he did. Without getting into the particulars of any state because I just wouldn’t know what I’m talking about, I can say that an overseer cannot take something he didn’t give. State Trustees don’t trump the state Overseer or state council on properties. The General Assembly gave that authority to ABs and Councils. And Trustees serve at the pleasure of the overseer. And, State Overseers don’t trump the General Overseer on credentials. In order for a minister to take your credentials, you would need to be brought up on charges and brought before a trial board. They can’t just be taken. It’s impossible. There is process for all of this. If the state council isn’t doing its job, that’s another story. State councils in every state need to watch the property. We have indeed sold off tons of property and have nothing to show for it…which is why I wrote and submitted the 2010 motion on property. If someone has since sold that property without the ABs knowledge, he needs to find out why someone subverted his authority. If an overseer sold property and distributed money improperly, the state council needs to find out why an aB subverted their authority. That’s just the way it is. That motion passed by a substantial margin because the ministers and members don’t want to see hard won properties be cannibalized to fund administrative overhead that is too big and needs to be artificially propped up, which is what happens when sold property is funding admin in that manner. But, that clearly is not just an issue for state overseers. It’s also a job for the state council. Leadership is bleedership. Sometimes, you just have to have real conversations among yourselves. Now, what a state Overseer can do is remove you from a church. He has that power. If something has been done improperly, there is a way to deal with that. Along those lines, I long decided not to use a pen name for that reason. If I was going to get knifed, I decided it would be best done in the middle of the arena and not in a dark alley.

That looks really good on paper. When you see an AB taking cereditials of anyone that opposes him you either let him have his way, hold your peace or walk away. How can a state councilmen hold an AB accountable unless he is more connected to the COG system than the AB. I’ve seen them try to absolutely no effect. I’ve also seen a couple Councilmen that carried enough influence to do it more effectively. If an AB rules with an iron fist they are not looking for Council. Unless it helps them get their way. I don’t think an overseer can just take someone’s Credentials. Brother I wouldn’t be posting under a pen name if that was true. He can take your credentials. He can take your church. We must be in 2 different denominations. We call it the COG graveyard in our state. We had a state leader challenge the AB about removing a pastor from his church with no notice to be told I’m the AB and can do whatever I want to do. And he did. Without getting into the particulars of any state because I just wouldn’t know what I’m talking about, I can say that an overseer cannot take something he didn’t give. State Trustees don’t trump the state Overseer or state council on properties. The General Assembly gave that authority to ABs and Councils. And Trustees serve at the pleasure of the overseer. And, State Overseers don’t trump the General Overseer on credentials. In order for a minister to take your credentials, you would need to be brought up on charges and brought before a trial board. They can’t just be taken. It’s impossible. There is process for all of this. If the state council isn’t doing its job, that’s another story. State councils in every state need to watch the property. We have indeed sold off tons of property and have nothing to show for it…which is why I wrote and submitted the 2010 motion on property. If someone has since sold that property without the ABs knowledge, he needs to find out why someone subverted his authority. If an overseer sold property and distributed money improperly, the state council needs to find out why an aB subverted their authority. That’s just the way it is. That motion passed by a substantial margin because the ministers and members don’t want to see hard won properties be cannibalized to fund administrative overhead that is too big and needs to be artificially propped up, which is what happens when sold property is funding admin in that manner. But, that clearly is not just an issue for state overseers. It’s also a job for the state council. Leadership is bleedership. Sometimes, you just have to have real conversations among yourselves. Now, what a state Overseer can do is remove you from a church. He has that power. If something has been done improperly, there is a way to deal with that. Along those lines, I long decided not to use a pen name for that reason. If I was going to get knifed, I decided it would be best done in the middle of the arena and not in a dark alley. That’s just me having some really honest talk. We are seeing a movement starting, I tell you what. We are seeing some mighty good fellas leave the denomination because of bullying and intimidation techniques used by some of these AB’s. If a fella doesn’t do what an AB wants, he can threaten to pull their papers by the thin charge of insubordination.As a result, you can have a state council of yes men or men who don’t want to commit ministerial suicide by standing up to a bully. So what happens? You start seeing multiple good men going independent. Some even take their church body with them. They realize that pastoring is tough enough without having your overseer fight against you. They realize they don’t really need an overseer. They leave and continue to minister the gospel.We all need to look at our individual states. How many good men have left the Church of God due to a bully? Now fellas, I’ve seen a lot in my time on the bench.I’ve seen churches pastored to death. Now we are seeing some of our states overseered to death.Maybe some time in the bear cage would straighten these fellas out. Maybe I need to get a few more bears and cages.But it ain’t right, Intell you what. Not sure what a bear cage is, but there is an old saying, people do not change until they hurt enough. The loss of promising pastors and the churches they will develop, income decline from zero sum policies, the use of authority to maintain position, will contribute to change in any denomination sooner or later. The problem is, some people would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven as the saying goes. Better to have the title and position than to face the prospect of returning to being a pastor. Here’s a third old saying, once they see the city how you going to keep them on the farm. Once a man is in a position of power, has the title and the benefits, there is little inclination for personal sacrifice, but great willingness to make the subornation pay the price. If you don’t like what your leaders are doing, stop sending them money, stop feeding the bear!