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I must admit that I have some inclination to believe that those who go to hell will, at some point, simply cease to exist, going into utter oblivion. I base this on what is assuredly human view that it is one thing to burn for 10 minutes, 10 days, 10 years, even 10,000 years. But when we truly think about eternity, that means that someone who did not believe on Jesus will be in hell for more than 1,000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000 CENTURIES!, I have to believe that, as has always been the case, God will temper his judgment with mercy.But here is the thing! Even if hell is for 30 seconds, and then you are gone forever, Jesus said that it was better to cut off your hand, cut off your feet, pluck out your eye, etc. to AVOID going to hell! Consider that for a moment…. EVEN if we believe in eventual annihilation, hell is so horrific that Jesus is telling us to DO ANYTHING to avoid it!If “hell” is just death and ceasing to exist, then as bad as it would be to know that friends and family would go on forever in the presence of the Lord, and you would cease to exist, that still is something most people could likely manage. That is, you are horror-stricken for a few moments…and then it’s all over. No, whatever hell is, whatever it is like, however long it lasts, whether a split-second or a trillion centuries, it is so bad that we are admonished to avoid it at all costs.So, that lets us know that hell is more than just dying and going away forever. It is a level of horror that is unparalleled in the entire universe. If it didn’t exist, or if it was just a blinding flash that blasted us into oblivion, there would not have been any reason to warn so strongly of avoiding it.

Re: Some thoughts…

And the smoke of their torment went up before God Day and night forever and ever. GOD: I am going to destroy Nineveh in 40 days.GOD: No, I’m not.GOD: Hezekiah, you are going to shortly die.GOD: I’m going to give you 15 more years.I’m not BANKING on this, of course. But then again, I don’t plan to go to hell anyway. Further, even if hell is 90 seconds, it will be worse than anything ever devised. As I have indicated, I have some inclination toward the belief that oblivion is the end result. God divorced Israel…and then, like Hosea, goes crying through the streets to get her back, EVEN THOUGH it an apparent abomination to remarry the same person if they have been with others, etc.

Continuing in sin merits continuing punishment.

Here is a good discussion by Randy Alcorn of Lewis’ view of Hell: http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/banished-from-humanity

I think you are lying, well maybe telling a story. I ain’t never seen no jewelry at a General Assembly. But the last one I attended was Early 1960’s. Maybe things ‘is’ different now________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

My experience is the same as OTCP’s – it was unnerving when I first saw Christian jewelry vendors in the exhibition area of the COGOP assembly (it was a little latter than OTCP’s experience, but we are always a step or two behind). I have seen these same vendors at the COG assembly in Orlando I attended, as well as a couple of AG General Conferences and other such events. I guess its no different than suit, shirt and tie sales, but it give pause. I don’t think the suit salesmen said they were Christian suits, but Christian themed jewelry sounds like religious metals and lucky charms. Superstition about jewelry (and tattoos for that matter) border on idolatry.

Only the carnal one’s, Carolyn. Them what was sold out looked, but didn’t partake. Oh my friend, you are so deceived! LOL ________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name

People (men and women) can dress as they want, what I object to is the implying that jewelry somehow Christian. I wear a little gold (gold tone) cross on my lapel sometimes, but I am under no allusion that the wearing of a cross makes me more Christian. I wear a wedding ring, but so do many people who do not believe in Jesus Christ and it is not a Christian symbol.When the singer Madonna was popular (is she still around), she wore multiple crosses of all sizes. Was that Christian jewelry? Not on her it wasn’t. Like I said, people can wear what they want in church and out- jewelry with religious symbols, Make America Great Again red hats, shorts, tanktops and whatever makes them happy. However, I do see warnings about symbolism/idolatry in the Bible, but maybe those who wear their lucky charms don’t. MatPS I’m thinking the church needs to apologize to Jezebel. She was just a girl trying to feel good about herself. I agree, Mat. Jezzy has indeed gotten a bum rap. She is much more about control than she is about makeup & jewelry________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name

People (men and women) can dress as they want, what I object to is the implying that jewelry somehow Christian. I wear a little gold (gold tone) cross on my lapel sometimes, but I am under no allusion that the wearing of a cross makes me more Christian. I wear a wedding ring, but so do many people who do not believe in Jesus Christ and it is not a Christian symbol.When the singer Madonna was popular (is she still around), she wore multiple crosses of all sizes. Was that Christian jewelry? Not on her it wasn’t. Like I said, people can wear what they want in church and out- jewelry with religious symbols, Make America Great Again red hats, shorts, tanktops and whatever makes them happy. However, I do see warnings about symbolism/idolatry in the Bible, but maybe those who wear their lucky charms don’t. MatPS I’m thinking the church needs to apologize to Jezebel. She was just a girl trying to feel good about herself. I agree, Mat. Jezzy has indeed gotten a bum rap. She is much more about control than she is about makeup & jewelry. Carolyn, I will agree, the evils of Jezebel cannot be summed up in makeup and jewelry. Yes, she wanted control, however she used here sexuality as the instrument of control. To enhance that control she presented her body as desirable for sex, and she communicated a sexual willingness to men who could do her bidding. I did not watch the interview with Stormy Daniels (the pron star) on 60 Minutes, but I did see an ad which showed her dressed like a missionary (covered and simple). This stands in stark contrast to the pictures on the news when she is with Trump, or the other pictures of her the news shows. On 60 Minutes she dressed to project a I’m a nice, person, believe me persona and when pictured with Trump she projects I’m available for sex, believe me persona. It seems in church culture today we often deny the sexual nature of people, only to be shocked when they engage in sexual (often deviant) behavior outside of marriage. We are told not to judge on dress, which I understand, but even the conversation about what is godly dress is deemed judgmental and hateful. As a man (all be it an aging over-weight not rich man), I can still observe visual ques projected by women who are looking for a relationship (even though its not with me). This is not simply the spiritual gift of discernment at work, or 40+ years of ministry, it is also physiological as well. It is basis of a statement often made my men – I may be married, but I’m not dead – when they see a woman who appeals to them physically.So, yes, you can understand a great deal about who a person is, man or women, is by how they dress.

Somewhere, somehow, Cleveland lost it.Many opinions on why it happened.Before you shoot, Springfield lost it also.What will it take to get it back________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

People (men and women) can dress as they want, what I object to is the implying that jewelry somehow Christian. I wear a little gold (gold tone) cross on my lapel sometimes, but I am under no allusion that the wearing of a cross makes me more Christian. I wear a wedding ring, but so do many people who do not believe in Jesus Christ and it is not a Christian symbol.When the singer Madonna was popular (is she still around), she wore multiple crosses of all sizes. Was that Christian jewelry? Not on her it wasn’t. Like I said, people can wear what they want in church and out- jewelry with religious symbols, Make America Great Again red hats, shorts, tanktops and whatever makes them happy. However, I do see warnings about symbolism/idolatry in the Bible, but maybe those who wear their lucky charms don’t. MatPS I’m thinking the church needs to apologize to Jezebel. She was just a girl trying to feel good about herself. I agree, Mat. Jezzy has indeed gotten a bum rap. She is much more about control than she is about makeup & jewelry. Carolyn, I will agree, the evils of Jezebel cannot be summed up in makeup and jewelry. Yes, she wanted control, however she used here sexuality as the instrument of control. To enhance that control she presented her body as desirable for sex, and she communicated a sexual willingness to men who could do her bidding. I did not watch the interview with Stormy Daniels (the pron star) on 60 Minutes, but I did see an ad which showed her dressed like a missionary (covered and simple). This stands in stark contrast to the pictures on the news when she is with Trump, or the other pictures of her the news shows. On 60 Minutes she dressed to project a I’m a nice, person, believe me persona and when pictured with Trump she projects I’m available for sex, believe me persona. It seems in church culture today we often deny the sexual nature of people, only to be shocked when they engage in sexual (often deviant) behavior outside of marriage. We are told not to judge on dress, which I understand, but even the conversation about what is godly dress is deemed judgmental and hateful. As a man (all be it an aging over-weight not rich man), I can still observe visual ques projected by women who are looking for a relationship (even though its not with me). This is not simply the spiritual gift of discernment at work, or 40+ years of ministry, it is also physiological as well. It is basis of a statement often made my men – I may be married, but I’m not dead – when they see a woman who appeals to them physically.So, yes, you can understand a great deal about who a person is, man or women, is by how they dress.Mat Sometimes there is a sexual element to Jezebel, sometimes not. It is the anointing that Jezebel comes to destroy, and she will take it in any fashion she can. If it takes a sexual advance to bring down that anointed person, she can do that. Or if it’s just undermining him, she will do that too.How a person dresses definitely will tell on what’s in their hearts.Women are very good at spotting this when another woman is coming onto her clueless husband. If your wife tells you a woman is interested in you, listen! Not saying you are all clueless, but sometimes the husband is the last person to know. I heard a pastor’s wife say if it had been another woman in the garden, Eve would be hollering, Snake! Snake! ________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name

Carolyn,You said:

You know how you prefer virtually any church over a Pentecostal one? You know how you constantly belittle and make fun of Pentecostals–their singing, their style, their extremes, etc., all while apparently preferring more refined churches that don’t dabble in all of that stuff you lump together with snake-handling? You love the dead…because they aren’t Pentecostal, right?You know, this may reflect poorly upon me, but I’d rather go to a snake-handling church where people actually believe that God does wonders…than go to one that has a record of healing and miracles that is no better than random probability.

I would recommend an entry-level study of the manuscript tradition and NT textual criticism before holding one of the rattlers or taking a swig of the strychnine.

When Vincent Furnier AKA Alice Cooper, takes the stage, he is playing a role. Just like an other actor, the real person sheds role as he leaves the stage. I have seen Alice Cooper 5 times. Each time was better than the last. Vincent grew up in Detroit and is a P.K. He grew up in Church. The song I love the dead is no different than 18 or Schools Out or The ballad of Dwight Fry. They are just songs. I know, String, the original post was jest.

I realize I’m asking to be stoned, but please just read my post and honestly consider it before you pick up a rock, and when you do go to throw it, please remember to get a good plant and let the throw come from your leg, not just your arm. What was the condition she had before she was healed? Was she paralyzed and unable to walk, or does she use a wheelchair because walking is difficult? Did she get up on her own, or was she helped out of the chair? We can see that she is getting a lot of support on the way back to her seat.I ask because I have seen a lot of people who use wheelchairs because they have difficulty walking get up in the midst of an intensely emotional altar service as the band and the singers play. These same people are back in their wheelchairs the next day. I have seen some of them get up multiple times. My father-in-law has MS and has been healed more times than I can count. Each time, he would throw his cane down and walk around the church with assistance from someone else. He has also been swallowed by guilt and doubt over having lost his healing more times than I can count. In fact, people have told him that he must be losing his healing because he is a sinner.If you use a wheelchair because you have intense difficulty walking, it is no miracle for you to get up and be helped back to your chair. In fact, it is cruel to tell that person God has worked a miracle for them, and then to leave them wondering, once the emotional high has worn off, how they lost what God did in their lives.On the other hand, if you’re a paraplegic, or if the medical condition that made it hard for you to walk goes away and you are still out of the wheelchair weeks and months later, then that is a miracle. By the way, I have seen people be healed of chronic conditions and remain healed months and years later. They have evidence from their doctors to support that the condition they had doesn’t affect them any longer. If you ask them for evidence of their healing, they are delighted to show it to you, because they were genuinely healed by God and they have proof.If this woman was a paraplegic or was completely unable to walk, this is an amazing miracle. If she was able to walk with difficulty and now can walk without difficulty, this is an amazing miracle. But I believe it is worthwhile to know more of the story. I do not believe it is appropriate to attribute non-miraculous events to the Holy Spirit. He is a mighty God who works miraculous healings among his people. If this was one of them, praise the Lord! But if not, then this woman hasn’t had anything more than an emotional experience, and she’s likely to be filled with sorrow when she returns to her wheelchair.

You’d be surprised at what passes for one today.ANY TIME the Holy Spirit sends a blessing and someone gets a little victory (so to speak), that’s wonderful! BUT….But the lame man LEAPED to his feet. THAT is a miracle.If someone has cancer and the surgeon gets it all, that is a wonderful blessing from the Lord.If someone has cancer and is healed of it without a doctor’s intervention, that is a miracle.I give God praise for every person who comes through the prayer line and, say, has a headache, then reports that they are feeling better. Amen!

I’ve experienced one miracle in my own body. But I recall seeing one many years before that. (NOTE: I might have seen a whole lot more than I can recall, but perhaps I didn’t think of them that way….)Many years ago, we had a boy in our church (he died a just a few months back) who wore braces on his legs. The braces held his legs far apart. So when he needed to walk, he had to lean this way first, then throw that leg out front, then lean the other way and do the same for the other leg.We were in revival with Ed Adams, a Florida evangelist back in the day, and we must have had some sort of prayer line, and when that boy, maybe six or seven years old, I suppose, was prayed for, off came the braces, and he RACED around the sanctuary! It was an incredible moment. To my knowledge, he never put those braces on again.

The following is Brenda’s testimony. Make of it what ever you want. Come and visit her tomorrow. She couldn’t walk for sometime and now she walked. Yes I helped her. That’s what I felt a. Pastor would forSomeone who hasn’t walked in years. I didn’t know if she would walk and I didn’t want her to fall. She walked out. No one asked her to get up. No one said let’s try this. She felt God touched and she stood up on her on. She then told me I want to walk. So we did. I appreciate everyone’s Berean passion for honesty and integrity. Brenda’s testimony: To begin with I had the expectation that something great was going to happenI Prayed about it and I was feeling exhaustedWhen I got there I thought this is new and altogether different from what I know and grew up in [church wise]But I let go of that thinking and when I did here my spirit began to change and my attitude changed and I began to feel a sense of gratitude and I began to rejoice And then Kevin Wallace said if there is anyone who needs healing come forwardAnd then Simon asked if I wanted to go and I said yesAnd when I went forward to the altar it was like an explosion inside my my soul And as I began to praise him and I thank him I had a warm feeling come inside of me and I felt like I could walkAnd the more I praised him the more steps I tookAnd I still began to feel very warm and I felt like I could step and jump and do anything and I just kept going toward God It’s like an out of body experience sort of, you’re there and aware but you’re not because you’re praising the Lord in your mindI knew people were around me and praising the Lord and all but I didn’t really know because it’s like I was in a world of my own it’s like it was just me and GodI was the numb to what was going on around me because my focus God the FatherThe feeling has not gone away ( 4 hours later ) It’s like it has restored my soulIt’s not about me it’s about the glory of GodAnd I still expect more and good things to come It’s like a Holy fearI know I’m saved but it’s like I’ve been touchedIt’s like I have had a special anointing from Godâ€________________

Thanks for sharing the rest of the story, Kevin. Praise God! That sounds like a touch from the Lord! I guess I am just crazy enough to believe God still does miracles. People keep speculating on how Kevin Wallace is doing since he left the COG, so I thought I would share something positive. God is moving! He & his church appear to be doing just fine. PRAISE GOD!I understand the caution, but really – some of the comments here are SO NEGATIVE! I keep asking myself why I come here. Looks like this could be a place where we SHARE FAITH. I’m not a fanatic, but I do believe in the power of the blood and the name of Jesus and the healing power of God.All I’ve got to say is…John 9________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name

I’m not so sure of that. I don’t mean anyone in particular or in this post. I just wonder sometimes.

Re: I guess I’ll stick my head out and get stoned as well…..

Imma thinking…… No marriage is perfect. I am sure I do not know of a marriage where there was NO unhappiness. I am making an educated guess but I know several of my peers who have been married 50+ years that I would guess it has been about 50/50.We married at 17/18 yrs of age in 1956. That is over 60 years. I have set here (or is it ‘sat here’) trying to figure how much has been ‘actually unhappy’. I can total about 40 days of misery. MOST of them MY FAULT! Two weeks once and one week another. I am throwing the extra days that I did some stupid things because of jealousy. I am guessing this is the best marriage among my peers that I know.I probably would not have stuck it out if it was near 50% miserable. I am not a glutton for punishment. I cannot imagine not being happily married at least 95% of the time.I wrote a book once, It can Last Forever I got a lot of one liners from Acts contributors to end each chapter. They were good advice.. I sure hope my brothers and sisters here have better marriages than 40% Happy! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

Well, while ya addin up all the unhappy stuff, don’t fergit about at time when momma Cojak told ya to set down an you thought she said stand up. Son, iirc, at was a 2 year stretch a bad blood. But you finally learned to be obedient, so ats all at matters. Well when you get married at 17 it takes a little learning________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

I have noticed Google is not as good as it was once for me. But I am on the net using a cell signal and it is slow and dies very often and not a good judge as to its strength. I use Google seldom. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

A man asked a woman if she would sleep with him for a million dollars. She responded, Yes!Then he asked, How about for $25 dollars?She replied, No, way! What sort of woman do you think I am?

YES YESYESIt is in His Word. He never changes

Well, he could start by repentin for usin a degree mill docterate–A PhD in theology. Son, ya can’t help but horse laugh when ya see this kinda stuff, an some COG folk will continue to defend the person. http://www.lcus.edu/distinguished-graduates/index.php

Yeah but ’em ain’t numbers a’s words. Just sayin! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

Thanks Travi________________

Re: How long is a generation?

What he said! Agree. Unfortunately, it is apparently legal in the US to fleece the flock like these prosperity guys and gals all do with their false promises and shameless self-aggrandizement. Really? Read the investigation. Michael Chitwood has a great synopsis on the investigation. Some of these guys have to raise money. consider this less the .02 percent of all organizations have more than 500 employees. These guys write books release literature write songs. They work out side of the realm of a typic Church. Follow the politics the republicans wanted to put Pentecostals in there place. They saw them as too influential.