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The time I was going to agree with you 100%, Maybe I still do, but now we will never know!!! These are the posts that cannot be hijacked, where I am told to go somewhere else and stay on subject. THANKS!ANYONEBUTHILLARY! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

I am not one to encourage anyone to leave the denomination, but my advice would be to know for sure you have heard the heart of God on this matter before you make such a decision. Fully count the cost of leaving the denomination. Are you willing to lose friends and relationships and the backing of the COG?I am sure there is more to the story, but it seems odd that more than one AB would be against such a move. Not saying it’s not true, but wondering why the state would try to hinder it.I sense frustration on your part and would caution you not to make an emotional decision. If you fully believe this is where the Lord wants you, listen to Him and ask Him to make it clear. When you know His will for certain, follow Him________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name

Great advice! ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

There is such a thing as predatory church planting. Many AB’s have been guilty of endorsing such practices. I don’t have enough facts to speak authoritatively in your instance. Sounds like you want to go to an open field where there is no COG presence. That sounds good. Also sounds like you are expecting to take members from existing churches as part of your “vision”. Hard for me to embrace that. Again, I don’t know you or the situation. But your words reflect an adversarial relationship with state leadership. That doesn’t mean you’re wrong and they’re right. But how can two walk together unless they be agreed ? I’m a Kingdom guy. I’m COG but the Kingdom is much bigger. So with that said, if it’s truly God’s will for you to be in this city, no AB can hinder that.

I just found the post. I have been sicker ‘n a dog (statement from my youth).Don’t go away upset. there is some solid advice above. I have never had a problem with an overseer, but I have known those who crossed swords. one won, most did not.Give it a lot of thought and prayer. Yes, on face value of what I read, something stinks.Hang in there. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

Guess he didn’t like the way the thread went________________

That is a fact, Link! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

I am lucky, I cannot remember back that far. But thanks for giving a reason. That is thoughtful. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

Too late MrSippi, I done read it, copied/pasted it on the Mississippi State COG website. They comin after ya, son………………

I will say at this point it seems that most ‘Christians’ are ‘playing nice’. As a general rule at least half our good folk ‘sorta’ declare the ‘Leave-r’ as hell-bent!TL was brought up as an example of ‘falling-in-line’ when he was becoming a BIG name. In my mind,I ask: What if his situation were today? I can see a small-minded person (like myself) who doesn’t know the reality of ‘What It Takes’ to operate a LARGE organization. Upon visiting COG HQ would question, part of my tithe built this ‘opulence’?Have you seen the state of the art meeting room of the council? WOW.It is possible that one would say, isn’t that a waste of God’s money? They could meet in a much less expensive place.I said that, not as a negative, but just what a person who is living hand to mouth on a weekly salary and paying 10% + of their meager income, could not in their wildest dreams buy one of those chairs and the electronics around it, in the council room.I stated as a disclaimer, I have no idea if this is something ‘required’ to operate this large organization. I know it is not General Motors, but to me the COG is a large organization.Let me clarify my statements: in reality my income tax, that helps keep up our government, is spent in the first few minutes Air Force One is cranked up. I do not envy a president having use of that plane.So in comparison I know that 10% of my yearly tithe probably would not buy the staff at HQ a Pepsi and a Big Mac. But it is still needed like that plane.________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

To be sure, I am sure there are expenditures that are likely opulent, but at the same time, if one has the technology to conduct world wide media rooms with state of the art ability to carry both audio and video data, there is a certain dollar level at which is required to do that — period. That dollar amount may seem excessive to the small local church, but may be the minimum amount needed to use that media device. If indeed, they are using that technology to conduct meetings to save air travel, hotel, etc of many people, it may be economically wise to acquire such state of the art equipment. On the other hand, if it just sits and isn’t being used, that is a whole different story. I have worked with companies with multibillion revenues and 50 thousand employees. My current employer has over 5,000 employees and almost 1 billion in revenue. I report directly to the President and Board of this organization. However, I don’t consider it to be extraordinarily large compared to multi national corps such as Apple, General Motors, etc. So large is one of perspective. Compared to a small congregation of 200 members, COG HQ is large, but taken in perspective of truly large organizations, it isn’t. Unfortunately, for HQ, the perception of the members and ministry is that it is large, since perception is reality, it is indeed large From conversations I remember from years ago about COG finances and that their audits are not publically available to the membership, I think that is a SERIOUS issue. The COG is not a corporation which derives it revenue from sale of goods and services and intimate details of salaries, etc is not available to people that are not investors. The COG has common charteristics of a government entity where data is generally available, including personal salaries, to anyone under Sunshine, open government laws that are common. While it isn’t a government per se, I do not believe that even according to the Bible can they conduct their affairs in secret. The Church derives its revenues from donors, either directly or indirectly via the Tithe of Tithe. Therefore, its finances should be publically available to its donors. At the minimum, information should be available in some form and perhaps the salaries of senior officials should be available.Then, the Church membership can determine if the organization is wasting its resources. Without information, those opinions are based on rumour and speculation. To their defense, unfortunately, if they did release more details, members would question why one bought a $1,500 desk versus the $200 el cheapo from Wally world. There is a balance between being cheap versus extravagant and those judgements are difficult to address. Truly, the HQ is between a rock and a hard place, but I think at least general information should be made available to the membership. Perhaps, policies that indicate the price ranges available for equipment, technology etc. Travel policies could indicate whether officials can travel first class or coach. Even the travel policies can be difficult to truly judge. For a person that travels virtually full time, first class is not a luxury as airline travel is a chore, tiresome, and stressful. Unfortunately, for individuals who rarely travel, the thought of travel can be exciting and one may wish they could travel, even if via Coach. To this day, some 30 years later, I STILL automatically get tired the minute I step onto an airport! And, we were allowed to travel first class, stay in first class hotels, our laundry was paid for, and we were members of airport executive travel clubs that offered real recliners, individual servers in the restraunts, etc. By normal standards, we traveled in style. But, if you had to do that travel on a routine basis, it was NOT considered a perk, but as a way to try to relax between flights. I understand both sides of those issues and they are far more complex than first blush. This was more than you asked, but I thought I’d offer my view.

Where are the days when some of our good Alabama boys would have objected to the OP calling Lincoln and Grant good men.

Bonnie, we understood the good men was tongue in cheek… it was never about the men, but about the

This is the kind of high-quality sticky that keeps me coming back to Acts________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/

I wasn’t good and nothing I could do merited His salvation for me, nothing. He saved me because He is good________________

Thats it?No description or nothing?Saying something like this is kinda like saying the bank’s interest rates are going to change …sooner or later you’re going to hit it right on the head.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!

Re: the poster boy of the COG may not be COG anymore

7564Before it gets deleted

Don’t even know where to begin here…I guess first would be the horrible leap to a conclusion that the only reason for leaving the COG would be because a person concludes they don’t need covering. And for what it’s worth the whole notion of covering seems conveniently overcooked whenever necessary – notwithstanding the fact it was pretty much done away with at the protestant reformation. But I digress…And then there is always my favorite one: How people will make gutless, disparaging remarks about a person’s character from behind the veil of a pen name. Seriously……….?? Well spoken Tom!I’ve never mentioned this part about my tenure in the CoG but when I was 23 & pastoring my first CoG church, my best friend (22 years old) & I were given permission to merge the two tiny churches (located in the same area) & I became the associate pastor since his building was much bigger, he had a few more people & we were right smack dab in the middle of town. After 2 years our little band of 80 people grew to over 400 & the two guys who merged were now 25 & 24 years old. We began to run into some major road blocks & a plan was developed by the 12 men on our pastor’s council to consider giving up our beautiful location & to leave the CoG.Things happened & we eventually left in December 1984.I stayed there until the Spring of 1992 & was very glad to be a part of a church that grew to over 1,300 in attendance on a consistent basis.The year after I left my friend resigned & the current pastor who is there now was elected to lead the congregation. Under his leadership the church grew to well over 4,000 & today it is a leading church in the community.I mention this because had we hunkered down & listened to bad advice, I sincerely doubt we would have seen the hundreds of families that we saw come to the Lord & nor would we have seen the many people called to ministry as we did. It was a God thing but people made it very messy for awhile.I came back to the CoG in 2000 & I’m pastoring a church with no intentions of ever leaving this denomination.It’s kind of funny to me how we look at it as a negative thing when it’s very possible that God has a major plan to do a wonderful thing, if we let Him.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!

Good night all, hope you have adjusted your clocks… We are headed for Sanford, Riverwalk COG in the AM. God Bless and Good night. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

You can’t be a Christian and pull out of the denomination, can you?Uncovered________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/

Mike Chapman and City Church?Just a guess.Kind of like the identity of the big churches about to affiliate with Cleveland.I don’t doubt it, just that no one wants to identify them. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

I’ve always found some degree of mutual exclusion when using the terms transparent and anonymous in the same sentence.Nonetheless, the counsel you have given is good.

Now, I don’t KNOW that, but the word apostle is not at all like the word bishop or even administrative bishop. Just because someone is in charge of an area, doesn’t make them an apostle.If I were classify people as apostles, I think of a WHOLE LOT of good men of God who would easily be able to claim the mantle of head bishop, administrative bishop, even presiding bishop.But in all of Church of God history, I know of only TWO who have clearly been apostles, in my book: A. J. Tomlinson and T. L. Lowery.Doesn’t mean they did everything right, but they had such a dramatic boldness that I have to think they were apostles.As for evangelists, at least in my lifetime, I think Ray H. Hughes and Carl Richardson would be two of the preeminent evangelists in our denomination. There are plenty of others–Henson, Horton, etc.Charles Conn is kind of in a special class, I think. I see him as someone specially gifted to administrate the Church of God. Perhaps he would be like a James (which is how A.J. Tomlinson thought of himself), overseeing the work of the church with incredible ability and excellence. Without Conn, I don’t know if Lee University would have lasted or even became a university.

I’m not sure why you deleted this post, but I intended to comment. I looked around online and couldn’t anything about this event, even on the Delmarva website. Makes me wonder if someone besides the state is sponsoring the event. An apostle is a sent one. The way I understand their ministry, they are the ones that God used to send ahead to dig things out and start a church. When they got one established, they would usually move on and start another church. Their anointing seemed to be to establish churches in the places God would send them to keep the work of God alive and thriving and new churches continuing to fulfill the mission of the Church.I don’t think we have a good understanding of what an apostle really is anymore, and some question if it is still an office for today. I don’t believe God has removed any of the 5 offices, personally, and I’m not sure who would qualify as an apostle. I’m not sure how an AB would fit into that category.There are a lot of self-proclaimed prophets and apostles today. Titles such as this seem to be more used in Black culture. I’m not trying to sound racist, but that’s what I have observed through the years________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name