We are reading more and more about churches leaving the COG organization. It seems to be very easy for some to leave. All power and authority seems to be in the local church. Cleveland does nothing except send a representative out to tell everyone goodbye.On the other hand some churches are controlled by Cleveland and cannot leave the organization easily. The COG would tell the congregation to go find yourself another building and take this pastor with you.
Well one could ask Joe Chambers. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
It is a good question.
Not in my Church. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
There is not an organization business or religion where there is not preference treatment. I am very familiar with that even in local churches, some members are given preferential treatment.Most of the time there is a good reason. NC lost a good church in Mt. HOlly. The Overseer made what he thought was the best decision, if the church itself could assume the million dollar+ loan they could take it. They could and they did.The overseer knew there would only be a handful of folks left, and they had come from other COG’s in the area. It was a logical decision, it did not set well with many preachers but the Overseer used his discretion. That happens when the church is built around a personality, not the organization. So my answer is of course there is preferences. Another Overseer decided that Joe Chambers should leave the structures, his discretion. Joe fought i in court and lost. Joe knew from his youth the chain of command and ownership of property.Different men different situations. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
See my friend, you still have that COG pastor’s mindset, NOT IN
So is the strategy to keep the building to have a a really large church building that would be hard to fill with a new congregation in a reasonably short period of time and a loan amount so high that the denomination cannot afford to take it on________________
The Bible has something to say about marriage________________
So is the strategy to keep the building to have a a really large church building that would be hard to fill with a new congregation in a reasonably short period of time and a loan amount so high that the denomination cannot afford to take it on? That has worked almost 100% of the time________________
I heard about that. (The rest of this is just an aging 5th gen CoG boy dealing with something that grieves him.)I am trying to point out that being my pastor does not grant you the authority to dissolve a vow I have made to join the Church of God anymore than it would grant you authority to dissolve my wedding vows. And this local church is no more your church because you have faithfully pastored it than it is mine because I have faithfully supported it. I have a sermon topic for you… preach 1 Cor 1:10-17.There will be some who won’t stay at Redemption Point because they do consider themselves to be loyal members of the Church of God and they take their vow to join seriously, but those will be few and quickly replaced. Most will accept their divorce from the CoG with hardly a thought. This is because the member has no involvement with Cleveland, and almost no involvement with State offices. It was not always this way.Kevin was Church of God. Losing him is a huge loss for the denomination. But the church has nothing to offer him other than fellowship and applause. He got a ton of that last Saturday night at Winterfest. It doesn’t last.The safety net of being offered another church if things start going badly at this one has no meaning. The opportunity to become a State Overseer or even General Overseer holds no enticement. All oversight of church operations are released to his discretion.In short, his ministry, like the other men pictured with him on his facebook page has outgrown the denominational advantages. I am confident his ministry will only grow.
In the Joe Chambers case the judge was a United Methodist.That is why he and his folks at Paw Creek lost.Bro Joe’s contention was that the Church of God had moved away from what it was when he joined.It had become something else, something that was foreign to him and his people.Cleveland had crossed a line that he could not tolerate.I have spoken with many Church of God pastors and preachers over the years.They all have a line, a boundary which when crossed would motivate them to withdraw from the oversight of Cleveland.Ordination of women, homosexual marriage etc…Oh by the way, when I joined the C/G I did not take any vow or enter into any marriage arrangement.I am curious if any of you who did would disclose exactly what the vow consisted of________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
I heard about that. (The rest of this is just an aging 5th gen CoG boy dealing with something that grieves him.)I am trying to point out that being my pastor does not grant you the authority to dissolve a vow I have made to join the Church of God anymore than it would grant you authority to dissolve my wedding vows. And this local church is no more your church because you have faithfully pastored it than it is mine because I have faithfully supported it. I have a sermon topic for you… preach 1 Cor 1:10-17. Wouldn’t those verses present a basis for an argument not to join a denomination like the COG, Cleveland?Do you actually swear vows to join the COG? I’ve never joined a COG in the US. I never swore an oath to join a church in Indonesia, either. I don’t think I’d ever join a church if it required me to swear an oath to join. It seems like I’ve seen some old COG minutes against swearing oaths.Btw, the Bible doesn’t say swearing a vow makes a marriage a marriage. That’s part of the RCC ceremony, which was probably influenced by the pre-Christian Roman ceremonies, which used a pagan priest instead________________
Is there any violation of COG Minutes when churches are allowed in to the COG without putting up their property in the COG organization name.I have heard that some churches are allowed to join and still own their property and buildings and others are made to place their property and buildings in the COG name controlled by Cleveland.
Then little can be done to stop it________________
Here’s a link for you.books.google.com/books?id=geQRBwAAQBAJ&lpg=PT166&ots=X2IM2FRs-z&dq=church%20of%20god%20procedure%20for%20receiving%20members&pg=PT166#v=onepage&q&f=true
There has been in the past that the COG minutes were the highest rules for the organization of the COG.Leaders have given churches special deals that go against the COG Minutes as posted by Bro Bob in his above post.Churches are allowed to be a part of the COG without deeding their property.How does that make the pastor of a church feel who has to get Cleveland ok on every move. Some can stand up and say I am taking this church and congregation and the COG does nothing.How does this happen? Why go to the General Assembly? It doesn’t matter.