Was a soul created for us when we were conceived/born, etc.?Or had that soul always existed, but then somehow merged with us?
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Was a soul created for us when we were conceived/born, etc.?Or had that soul always existed, but then somehow merged with us?
OTCP…you’ve stopped being a parody…
Have you noticed, OTCP, that in your OTCP persona you NEVER add to a conversation? You always take it downward.
No, Aaron, our souls ain’t always existed. Gen 2:7
OTCP,I don’t know about that, it seems like you’re an old soul. You make me think there is something to say for reincarnation. Do you ever have memories of how he sea bed felt on you feet as you passed through the waters of the Red Sea?Just sayin’!
I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility. I’ve got a feeling there may be a ton of surprises once the veil is taken away and we no longer see partially “through a glass “. And I’m neither Mormon nor WoF
Hmmm, I think he pointed out that the idea of pre-existing souls is a Mormon idea. How did that not add to the conversation? I agree with him. It is un-Biblical. David said You formed me IN MY MOTHER’S WOMB, that would be all of me including my soul (and spirit since I assume you mean spirit). JD, it’s not relevant whether it’s Mormon or not. What is relevant is the TRUTH. I’m sure the Mormons love their children…should we not do the same, since they also do??? C’mon!I am not at all against your take on the pre-existence of souls matter. But I am not at all convinced of your take either. There is surely some English on the interpretation. One could argue that being formed in the womb might have been speaking about the physical aspects.Consider this: Jeremiah 1:5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.This happened BEFORE being formed in the womb? Does this imply some sort of preexistence…or does it just imply that God foreknew something? Again, it’s interpretation, right?Jesus was the Son of God. Did the Son of God exist before the first Christmas in Bethlehem? Of course. Does that have implications for us? Maybe.
Ah my friend, that very thought has boosted my SOUL many times. It is human to want to know it all, funny thing, HE knows that.________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
No, OTCP…scripture, scripture, scripture…
Did you notice that you made a claim without a single scriptural reference? You simply dismissed it as foreknowledge, yet you are doing that because you, a priori, have decided that there is not such thing as the preexistence of souls.
The claim is not that it proves anything, but that rather it COULD mean something.We all agree with foreknowledge, but that doesn’t mean there is not at the same time preexistence of souls.Consider what Jesus said of John the Baptist. If you will receive it, this is Elias…. Well, most of us assume that he means something along the lines of LIKE Elias, but is that actually so? To be determined.
I think the operative term here is became. To answer your question: I am not aware of any scholar, broadly considered orthodox Christian, who
Nope, it ain’t just you Tom. They ain’t nothin in scripture what supports such a Mormon notion of souls just waitin fer the next body to inhabit, or reincarnation where folks just keep on a comin back as something different.
I think the burden of proof is on the person challenging historic orthodoxy, in fairness. If you told me that 2x + 2 = 5 when x = 1, and I say no it doesn’t because 2 + 2 = 4, I shouldn’t have to prove that 2 + 2 = 4. Not because it’s not true, and not because it can’t be proven, but because it’s already a commonly understood position.The position of historic orthodox Christianity, based on Scripture, is that there is no such thing as the preexistence of souls. See http://www.gotquestions.org/pre-existence-of-souls.htmlfor several references, and a Google search for did our souls always exist will reveal more.
I think the burden of proof is on the person challenging historic orthodoxy, in fairness. If you told me that 2x + 2 = 5 when x = 1, and I say no it doesn’t because 2 + 2 = 4, I shouldn’t have to prove that 2 + 2 = 4. Not because it’s not true, and not because it can’t be proven, but because it’s already a commonly understood position.The position of historic orthodox Christianity, based on Scripture, is that there is no such thing as the preexistence of souls. See http://www.gotquestions.org/pre-existence-of-souls.htmlfor several references, and a Google search for did our souls always exist will reveal more.If you’re going to challenge historic orthodoxy, ok, whatever, but you should come to the table with an understanding of what historic orthodoxy on the topic has been, and be prepared to engage that understanding. I don’t think it’s reasonable to start shouting sola Scriptura if people don’t offer specific proof texts for the historic scriptural interpretation concerning the issue. It feels like a fallacious dismissal. Just my opinion. Please note that I am NOT trying to challenge orthodoxy (although I sometimes do that). I simply DO NOT KNOW that answer. I tend to think that our souls did NOT preexist. But what I am looking for–and so far failed to find (despite some good efforts)–is any DECISIVE scripture that souls did not preexist.We somehow came to that conclusion centuries ago…but how? What scriptures were used? Or was this just believed because it was contrary to Greek philosophy’s take that there ARE preexistent souls?I am not meaning to be dismissive when I say that the scriptures offered (if any were offered) were unconvincing. I simply and truthfully don’t see them as decisive.Just as the church felt it important to figure out just how the Son and the Father all fit together (hence trinitarian doctrine), I am wondering if there is any one wondered just WHEN the soul came into existence…when it was placed in a child…etc.?
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you’re challenging orthodoxy. And even if you were, that doesn’t mean you’re wrong.Anyway, I linked you to an article with several Scriptures that seem to clearly stand against the notion of souls pre-existing. The chief argument against eternal pre-existence (which I don’t think you’re proposing) is that if souls eternal pre-existence is an attribute that is uniquely Trinitarian. For souls to eternally pre-exist, by definition, they would somehow have to be a part of God. This is arguably pantheism.And if they’re still created, but not at the point of birth, then when? At the point the universe was created? What support is there for that? At some other time between then and the creation of the person’s body?I understand that you may not find decisive, completely unambiguous Scripture that declares souls are created at the point of conception, and not before, but what you can find is a lot of Scripture that heavily implies that, and none that implies anything to the contrary. Speculating about something that could conceivably be true but has no support or implication in Scripture is unfruitful and arguably a 1 Timothy 4:7/Job 15:3