Church of God 1996 Resolution SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN
Church of God 2012 Resolution on MARRIAGE AND FAMILY
Statement of the Church of God Regarding Same-Sex Marriage Court Decision [dated June 26, 2015]
Adopted by the 75th International General Assembly (p. 158-159, S63) in GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR MINISTERS
II. Marriage and Same-Sex Relationships
A. The Church of God rejects the cultural, political, and theological pressures to change the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman. We affirm this definition based on God’s Word and the truth that Christian marriage between a man and a woman reflects the theological truth of Christ’s love for His Church.
B. Church of God ministers, whether an ordained minister or ordained bishop, shall only perform or participate in marriage ceremonies or marriage blessings between one man and one woman, as marriage is defined in the Bible. This policy also is applicable to Church of God ministers who serve in capacities outside the scope of normal pastoring, such as military, hospital, and corporate chaplains.
C. Local Church of God churches and the local Church of God ministers who serve them shall only hold, provide facilities for, conduct or preside over weddings, wedding receptions, and anniversaries (and other gatherings related to weddings, receptions, and anniversaries) that celebrate a marriage or blessing between one man and one woman, as marriage is defined in the Bible.
D. Church of God ministers shall maintain a Christ-like attitude of love, mercy, and grace, when counseling or otherwise dealing with individuals in same-gender relationships. A Christ-like spirit will maintain the truth of God’s Word, the policies of the church, and avoid inappropriate remarks or attitudes that do not reflect the Holy Spirit.
E. Church of God ministers shall seek to find godly counselors to whom they can refer individuals in same-gender relationships for additional ministry and guidance.
F. Failure of Church of God ministers to adhere to these biblically based guidelines will result in forfeiture of ministerial credentials.
SAME-SEX MARRIAGE MATERIALS [Dennis W. Watkins, Legal Counsel Church of God]
The issue of same-sex marriage continues to be one of the issues of greatest concern for our ministers and constituency. Since June 26, 2015, when the United States Supreme Court released the Obergefell decision, our ministers have been greatly troubled by the possible ramifications of this case. I have seen some good materials being circulated about this subject, but it has been my desire to provide the very best resources possible to our pastors and church workers. In that regard, I have engaged the law firm of Gammon & Grange in McLean, Virginia, to assist me in creating some materials specifically for Church of God pastors. Gammon & Grange is one of the leading nonprofit law firms in America and has been on the forefront of providing guidance to churches and church organizations about this subject. I am greatly appreciative of their help. There is attached to this article a Frequently Asked Questions paper that I think touches on the most important aspects of this subject. Also attached is a sample or template Facilities Use Policy and Procedures form that you can adapt to your local church’s needs. I hope that these items will be of great assistance to you. Remember that this issue of same-sex marriage is a developing one and that we can expect much future activity in the courts and elsewhere as we see the emergence of this subject. Please join with us in prayer for every aspect of this matter.
[quote=bradfreeman]
I always said this man was spirit filled regardless of being Baptist. Lol
I just read two old red-neck testimonies of conversions while listening to Billy on the Radio in the early 60’s. I like that. Lots of folks listened to the radio while driving their p/u trucks to work. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
A home run for the VP________________
________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
You can do one for 8 dollars per pastor. Charge a license renewal fee. Should cog license be for life? there could be a yearly or 2 year license renewal fee. It could be done very cheaply if the organization used a good denominational management software other than CDM+. CDM+ makes me feel as though I am stepping back into the days of MS dos the program is straight from 1999
checkr.com
OTCP would vote for periodic background checks with no problem at all.
I have had emails on the board asking about using checkr for church background checks for 8 bucks. I am happy to share that knowledge with anyone wanting to know how. you can use this for any ministry in your church. the easiest way is to sign up for a free at planningcenteronline.comfrom there on the top right is a link called sign up. create a free accountafter that is donefollow this link below. it is a video tutorial on how to do background checks in planning center.planning.center/2017/secure-your-church-with-background-checks/here are the pricesyou can even do motor vehicle reports for 4 dollars. think about that the next time the youth group takes the church van.you do need to sign up for planning center people that part is free and it works really well as a church database…or even a local state church of God database for pastors and volunteers. this can make sure we keep our churches safe and sound.
Should or Should not, It does not matter. It will never happen. 1) Cost Prohibitive 2) Negative Number ImageThe COG will never spend money on something that will present negative optics
Re: Should or Should Not, It does not matter.
Its all about the numbers.
Re: Its all about the numbers.
I think every other year would be just fine myself.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Rev. Graham is lying in honor at the Capital Rotunda.That’s way past doctorate as an honor________________
________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I predict no less than 6 special orders of the day, when the agenda comes out. I’m sitting this one out________________
Gonna save several thousand this time & we are going to invest the dollars here at our local church.We can read about the details later – not gonna miss much!________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
While it would be very encouraging to see Benny Hinn repent from his long career of teaching for shameful gain the things that he ought not, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of truth or repentance in this article.There seems to be a lot of denial about the actual lavishness of his lifestyle. Benny Hinn’s own nephew, Costi, who grew up in the family business but left it when God saved him, has been open and transparent about the lifestyle he lived as a Hinn. He talks about flights on private Gulfstreams and hotels that were $25,000 per night. In his new book, he mentions how he would shop in the finest stores every single time he was in Los Angeles. It was a life of abject luxury, and according to Costi, it was built by taking advantage of [people], exploiting the poor, using our greed, squeezing every last dollar out of people so we could live the way they could never [live]. But here Hinn downplays all that, as he always does, and says, yes, I may have gone a bit too far with the prosperity teaching, but I don’t live as lavishly as people say.To see what true repentance from the prosperity gospel looks like, I would recommend an article on the same website about Costi Hinn: http://www.christianpost.com/news/benny-hinns-nephew-hinn-clan-like-royal-family-and-mafia-prosperity-teaching-is-twisted-204152
It sounds like he has changed his views and dialed back his lifestyle. Good for him________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
I hope so. Jim Baker did, he is 180 degrees from the prosperity doctrine. Agreed, Repentance starts somewhere! I have been a critic of Hinn, I do like it when someone sees the light. Mama said the proof is in the pudding! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
He was very specific in saying his view is that God doesn’t want us to lack.Sounds like a pretty solid take on Phil 4:19to me________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
No he doesn’t denounce or reject it. He could legitimately still believe 98% of it, an honestly say he took it a bit too far with the 2%.Its honestly difficult to believe that so many COG folk is so GULLIBLE to believe, an keep on believin in this kinda stuff, even after failure
I’m not sure why it seems plausible that the nephew has changed his mind and repented, but Benny couldn’t possibly do that.That Benny Hinn would even hint he could have been wrong about what he taught is quite a statement, IMHO. And it sounds to me as though he & Jim Bakker were caught in the same trap that lead them where they were. Jim Bakker says in his book, I Was Wrong that he was so busy, he didn’t have time to spend with God or really studying, and a lot of his messages were simply leftovers from other preachers. But…he had a lot of time in prison to read the words of Jesus, and he discovered that Jesus didn’t have much good to say about riches or rich people. He wrote down every word of Jesus by hand while he was in prison. Prison was actually a gift to Jim, though, because it caused him to realize he was wrong about a lot of things.I’m not gullible or stupid. I used to follow Benny Hinn’s ministry many years ago, and I went to couple of his meetings with my sister-in-law, who was saved and filled with the Spirit through his ministry. Perhaps he hasn’t really repented…but do you see any other televangelists making this statement? One of my pastors used to say, Eat the meat and spit the bones. Glean what is good and reject the rest. If you have a firm foundation in the Word, I believe you can do that.I am a mercy person. I believe in grace, and I believe His grace is abundant. I would rather forgive you than hold your feet to the fire for wrong-doing. But that’s just me. I am just glad I don’t have to get that grace from y’all________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
You must agree with Carolyn here. I do not watch TV, but this is a first report of ANY of the prosperity gospel enthusiast I have read even hint they were wrong.I was a strong supporter of PTL and the basic idea. It was a great place for Christian families to go and relax with like minded people. I was very disappointed in Jim, because he was the glue that held the IDEA together. If you lived and worked around Charlotte you would have been blind not to know that the paper, The Charlotte Observer made it a mission to GET JIM! They and Satan did just that.I read Jim’s book. It was well written and I felt he had a HUGE change of heart. With Benny, I hope this is an HONEST heart felt change. I do give him credit for stating he went too far whether 1% or 90%. THERE WAS MOVEMENT in the right direction, in my opinion.I thank GOD for that. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Of course Benny could repent. Why couldn’t he? The point is that it doesn’t appear that he has. Compare what he said to what Costi said. Costi demosntrates true repentance and remorse for ever having been a part of it — he has renounced all of the teaching he participated in as false, abusive, and destructive and has embraced the true gospel of Jesus Christ. He didn’t just say, yeah, maybe I took it a little far.
In his book
The proper use of the Law…
Well, let’s understand what the Gospel is 1st. The Gospel is that the Kingdom of G-d is still hand, & with that Y’shua says repent… This 1st, in the NT can be seen with John the Baptist Matt 3, Mk 1:1-4; 3; the voice of one crying in the wilderness, prepare you the Way of the L-rd, make His path straight(Matt 7:13-14) 4; John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of *repentance* for the remission of sins Acts 13:24Y’shua picks up this same message in Matt 4:17, Mk 1:14; now after John was put in prison, Y’shua came to Galilee preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of G-d 15 and saying, the time is *fulfilled*, and the Kingdom of G-d is at hand *repent* you and *believe* the Gospel. What’s the Gospel?, repentance, stop breaking the Kings Rules for this Kingdom is here. Mk 1:2; as it is written in the prophets, behold I send my Messenger (Ex23:29-21, Isa 42:19)before your face which shall prepare your Way before you. Not a new WayWhat was His disciples message? Mk 6:12; and they went out and preach that men should *repent*, that’s the same message Acts 2:38; then Peter said unto them *repent*, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Y’shua HaMashiach for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the Holy Ghost. 3:19; *Repent* you therefore & be **Converted**, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come before the presence of the L-rdAbout the Law, just start in Rom 7:7; what shall we say then, is the Law sin? God forbid, no, I had not *known* sin but by the Law…. We sin when we break G-ds Commandments, Laws, Instructions, that’s why we need to follow the Gospel of repentance that Y’shua & the apostles preached on, it’s also all throughout the Old Testament. Read the 13 Attributes of G-d as I Was preparing this on a separate piece of paper it was so long and all surrounded the 13 Attributes of G-d in the TorahTorah is hitting the mark, sin is missing the mar________________Ps 122:6
Is that it dave, r u done________________Ps 122:6
Yes, I think so. You and especially Brad have made it very clear to me that I will not be allowed to have even a single thread on this topic without you two coming in here and taking it over to advocate your specific viewpoints, even though your views (without making any other comment on their validity or correctness) are specifically outside the bounds of what I wanted to discuss, and even though I specifically asked that those viewpoints not be expressed in this thread since they have been expressed in pages and pages and pages of other threads.
Yes, I think so. You and especially Brad have made it very clear to me that I will not be allowed to have even a single thread on this topic without you two coming in here and taking it over to advocate your specific viewpoints, even though your views (without making any other comment on their validity or correctness) are specifically outside the bounds of what I wanted to discuss, and even though I specifically asked that those viewpoints not be expressed in this thread since they have been expressed in pages and pages and pages of other threads.I wanted to try to give posters here a chance to discuss the middle of the road between you and Brad, but you both have made it crystal clear to me that that will not be acceptable. So yes, I think I’m done. Well that’s sad, I thought I was answering ur topic. U didn’t say it was 4 others, if u would have sent me a message saying so, no problem. I hope u continue this thread, I won’t come back, this is something u need to be solid on. How long will you be hesitant on two opinions…. If the L-rd follow Him, but if baal and follow him1 Kings 18:21May Adonai speak clearly in this thread for u all in Y’shua’s Name ameinShalo________________Ps 122:6
I much prefer physical books over electronic books. I think it’s easier to comprehend physical books, although it is nice to be able to carry several around, and it is nice that electronic books are (a little) cheaper.
So you’re one of those! I scour used book stores and thrift shops for books. You’d be surprised at what I’ve collected that way. Inevitably, I’ll find a book I’ve been searching for for a long time and someone will have written on just about every page. So I leave that one and keep searching________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Ha! Yeah, but I also don’t give books away, or if I do, they’re books I haven’t marked. I also never mark a book I borrow. That’s a good way to lose a friend!I make marks to identify things that stick out to me, or things that I believe are important to the argument the author is making. I either draw a small star, or if something is really significant to me, I write an exclamation point. However, I never add any sort of explanation beyond that. If I want to make any explanatory notes, I will do that outside of the book.
I think my wife just gave up on me. So long as I’m buying books with the money set aside for my allowance, she reserves comment. I tend to buy books much faster than I read them, so right now I am challenging myself to fully read 2-3 books for each one new book that I buy.
When we moved a year and a half ago,I gave away all but a couple dozen or so of my books because they are so heavy,and movers charge by weight. In hindsight that was not one of my more intelligent decisions________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Cojak – I have had two Kindles that I really enjoyed but wasn’t using either very much in the last year or so. One of them had a problem & the other I didn’t use as much after I got a smartphone. My son gave me a refurbished IPAD for Christmas, and I downloaded the Kindle app. I was thrilled to discover all my old Kindle books were on there. I think they were associated with my e-mail address or something. Maybe that would work for you, too! I also have my favorite Bible on there, but have never mastered the search engine part of it.The church was doing a clean up not long ago & was going to trash some books no one wanted. A sacrilege! LOL So I brought them home & weeded them into three piles – keep, give away, bookstore. I took the leftovers to the used bookstore today and got a $17.00 credit!!! I got a Jesus Calling book I was wanting for $2, I think. I also found a Bill Isaacs book the last time I was there. We used to go to the used bookstores when we traveled all the time and everyone could choose books to read. Two of my kids were voracious readers, so that was a very good thing. Hubby & I like to read too, so that was something we did a lot. Long before the age of Kindle and internet! ________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Ministerial library–hardback
Fiction–paperbac________________
Fiction? Paperback? Ohhh sonnnn, Rough, don’t tell me Carol’s done got you readin em ole Christian romance novels. Sonnnnnnnnnnnnnn, please say it ain’t so………………….
Fiction? Paperback? Ohhh sonnnn, Rough, don’t tell me Carol’s done got you readin em ole Christian romance novels. Sonnnnnnnnnnnnnn, please say it ain’t so…………………. Nah, Imma betting RR reads Lamoure, Clancy etc. No girly romance novels for THE MAN! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
brad, it’s right in front of ur face, u quote these passages all the time not understanding them. John 15:10; if you *keep* My (Jn 12:49, I have not spoken of Myself ) Commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have *kept* My Father’s Commandments abiding in His *love*. Keeping the Father’s Commandments are his love towards us, Y’shua didn’t fulfill that for us and nailed on the cros________________Ps 122:6
One thing is for sure: One of us is not understanding them. My mind is open. My heart is unveiled. Pray for an open mind.Luke 24:44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that
One thing is for sure: One of us is not understanding them. My mind is open. My heart is unveiled. Pray for an open mind.Luke 24:44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that
My answer, NO. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses.
Unless you fail to understand
the Feasts of the Lord (not Jewish Feasts) have prophetic implications, and therefore the issue is, therefore, will He fulfill the Feasts with His Return.Feasts that have been fulfilled:Passover through the shedding of HIs blood and broken body thus providing our Redemption (Passover & Unleavened Bread), then First Fruits on the 3rd Day.PentecostPreceding and At His Return:Feast of Trumpets beginning the Days of Awe (Prelude to Judgment)Day of Atonement (Final Redemption, The Last Trump closing Atonement, The Closing of Heaven’s Gates – Rev 14-15, prior to the Bowls of Wrath – Rev 16-19)The Feast of Booths – The Messianic/Millennial Reign Upon the EarthAnd what presumptuous conclusions we draw when we box ourselves into an inflexible interpretative model.Typical allegorical interpretation by the Greek/Western mindset________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
Re: Unless you fail to understand
Mark, Would you agree that, if all has not been accomplished, then not one jot or tittle has passed from the law?Mat 5:17
Mark, Would you agree that, if all has not been accomplished, then not one jot or tittle has passed from the law?Mat 5:17
Well Ole Timer, according to Bill Johnson, the gospel
Re: Imagine what Billy Graham Could Have Done ifn He’d Had Gold Dust, Angel Feathers or Grave Suckin
This parody won’t protect you from speaking evil against your brother if you bother to read James 4:11-12…but this IS what you do best!________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
This parody won’t protect you from speaking evil against your brother if you bother to read James 4:11-12…but this IS what you do best!. Ats a good passage, Dean, an very true. But please align it with 1 John 4:1-6
This parody won’t protect you from speaking evil against your brother if you bother to read James 4:11-12…but this IS what you do best!. Ats a good passage, Dean, an very true. But please align it with 1 John 4:1-6for clarity. Familiar with it but what does that have to do with a Godly church whose leadership leads people to Christ & they are in conformance especially with verses 2-3? You however seem to have appointed yourself as a judge by applying vs 6 to you & your own personal beliefs.In fact by your own words its as though you believe you are a judge. (Back to James 4Old Preacher).You’ve been to Cleveland but you’ve never been to Redding lol.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
This parody won’t protect you from speaking evil against your brother if you bother to read James 4:11-12…but this IS what you do best!. Ats a good passage, Dean, an very true. But please align it with 1 John 4:1-6for clarity. Familiar with it but what does that have to do with a Godly church whose leadership leads people to Christ & they are in conformance especially with verses 2-3? You however seem to have appointed yourself as a judge by applying vs 6 to you & your own personal beliefs.In fact by your own words its as though you believe you are a judge. (Back to James 4Old Preacher).You’ve been to Cleveland but you’ve never been to Redding lol.. In the words of Tertullian, what does Redding have to do with Cleveland?OTCP is NO MAN’s Judge.
When you basically/intentionally call another pastor a fraud you have already judged him ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Seriously, Dean, did OTCP call Johnson a fraud?
Seriously, Dean, did OTCP call Johnson a fraud?Or, did I speak to the practice(s) he encourages/espouses? OMG dude …seriously? When the very title of your thread invokes the nation’s evangelist & then combines sensationalistic stories of a legit Christian pastor, it says fraud by implication in the least of definitions.By the title alone you intended to solicit comments that would offer opinions that speak of fraudulent integrity related to Pastor Johnson. Yes, from every angle you have called him a fraud & by no veiled terms to say the least. If your opinion of him & the Bethel ministry is so negative that you imply fraud & heresy then for the sake of truth own your own statements, implications & opinions.It’s America, you’re entitled to be wrong!And again, you’ve probably never been there & yet you’re an expert …right?!? ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Re: OTCP is the pharisaical fraud here!
One thing that’s always fascinated me is the connection between bad theology and bad character. It is not necessarily a given that people with bad theology will also have bad character — some are very sincere despite being in error, and I suppose God graciously keeps them. That’s true of all of us to an extent, as none of us have perfect theology, and yet God works in us and keeps us.But, there’s also a clear connection in Scripture between the two. We’re commanded to judge elders and teachers not only on their doctrine, but also on their character. Good character is the work of Christ as we understand and embrace the true gospel; bad character is the work of sin as we are blinded by falsehood.The small handful of folks on this forum opposing OTCP, me and others on this topic seem a little
Billy Graham – Lyrics by The Swirling Eddies
One thing that’s always fascinated me is the connection between bad theology and bad character. It is not necessarily a given that people with bad theology will also have bad character — some are very sincere despite being in error, and I suppose God graciously keeps them. That’s true of all of us to an extent, as none of us have perfect theology, and yet God works in us and keeps us.But, there’s also a clear connection in Scripture between the two. We’re commanded to judge elders and teachers not only on their doctrine, but also on their character. Good character is the work of Christ as we understand and embrace the true gospel; bad character is the work of sin as we are blinded by falsehood.The small handful of folks on this forum opposing OTCP, me and others on this topic seem a little
Re: OTCP is the pharisaical fraud here!
Dean, in sincerity, some a ma posts in this thread has been a bit light of heart, teasin/jokin an all. Just like I’d tease/joke bout a hillbilly, a democrat or any number a things.I don’t know Bethel/Johnson’s motivation. The motivation may be as sincere as the day is long. There may be a sincere effort to seek more a God. That said, we still gotta deal with the excess, which absolutely ain’t biblical, an borders on fruitcake-ishness.Now, I got all confidence ya daughter/son-in-law is sincere. So lets lay all at aside.
I can live with the understanding to agree to disagree.For the record I’ve never seen nor heard a single mention at any worship event the notion that there would be any evidence of feathers or gold dust.Would like to mention that just because things are different at any celebration of worship doesn’t mean it had to pass our definition of what worship means.So to that end we can agree that the worship of God takes many forms.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Hi Brad, thanks for your post. Please note that this thread is intended for discussion of the purpose of the Law for the New Testament church, working from the presumption that there is such a thing. It is not about whether the Law has any positive purpose for the church, though that too is a valid question and debate. I’ll likely split any posts about
Delet________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Brad,To help avoid confusion, let’s focus on the concept of moral law, rather than the law of Moses. If it’s your position that there is today no moral law which Christians are expected to obey, then your position (without making any comment on its validity or value) is outside the bounds of this thread, and I’ll be splitting off posts like that to help this one stay focused on the topic of how to properly handle and teach the Christian obligation to moral law.If you do hold that Christians are required to obey a moral law and intend to advocate that requirement as being distinct from the Law of Moses (e.g. Matt 22:37-40, 1 John 5:3
Delet________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Shalom dave, I have been waiting for this to take off, I’m more interested in what u think. Like I said all of the Law is moral, & it’s all the Law of Moshe, Law of G-d, Luke 2:39. I just want to say, this could be a good discussion, it gets people to dig into the Bible deeper, at least we are discussing it. As I read in the start looks like u want to have a discussion through ur denominational stance, my friend it won’t work. If I’m wrong forgive me, I just have done these conversations awhile now. It would be more beneficial for us to put aside something’s we have learned & think it’s right & test the Scripture________________Ps 122:6
Exactly that. That there is a moral law to which God requires obedience from all people, including those in Christ. That, separate from our justification and salvation (that is, neither causative nor retentive of such), God requires repentance and obedience. We are saved by faith alone, but Christ’s work in fulfilling the law does not eliminate the moral law or put it away; it remains a requirement upon God’s people, and this thread is intended to be a somewhat moderated discussion on how to communicate that requirement to people correctly, and how to teach Christ and His grace as the means by which that requirement can be fulfilled, confession of and repentance from sin can be worked, and forgiveness can be received. Again, to reiterate, we are talking about the moral law as it concerns relational sin, relational obedience, and relational confession and forgiveness — not a believer’s positional reality in Christ.
Nevertheless, that is the focus of this thread. Please respect that. I’m all for that, but as I read ur response to brad above, ur gonna have a hard time with this, G-d doesn’t have ur denominational stance on things.. U believe there is a section called the moral laws which G-d requires from all. G-d wants all.men to be saved 1 Tim 2:4, but not all will. & my friend, they are all moral, He only requires His people to keep them. U talked to Brad about repentance & forgiveness, u can start right there & ask the question, what are we repenting from? Or pick some if the things ur denomination believes about the Law & talk about it that way, c if it’s kosher ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‰I wrote out the 13 Attributes of G-d in another thread, everyone should read it, I have never heard that in a church service before. Very important to know G-ds mind on things. Shalo________________Ps 122:6
Delet________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Nope. Phil 2:12-13, 1 Cor 15:10
Delet________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
HEY!!! WHATS THIS? I NEVER STARTED THIS THREAD!!!________________Ps 122:6
You’ve been run off! So was I. Apparently, the discussion board (Dave) doesn’t want to actually discuss what the scripture says about the ways Dave or others suggest that the law might have value for the NT church. Dave apparently just wants an amen or additional ways the law is of benefit. Typical preacher attitude…Amen me or get out.________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
You’ve been run off! So was I. Apparently, the discussion board (Dave) doesn’t want to actually discuss what the scripture says about the ways Dave or others suggest that the law might have value for the NT church. Dave apparently just wants an amen or additional ways the law is of benefit. Typical preacher attitude…Amen me or get out. 😶 Hu________________Ps 122:6
Exactly that. That there is a moral law to which God requires obedience from all people, including those in Christ. That, separate from our justification and salvation (that is, neither
Nope. Phil 2:12-13, 1 Cor 15:10. ________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Nope. Phil 2:12-13, 1 Cor 15:10. I thought we were talking about a requirement to keep a (yet-to-be-clearly-defined) moral law.1 Cor 15:10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them,
Romans references the moral Law. Galatians references the ceremonial Law________________
Like I said before, all of G-ds Laws are moral. They have no headline________________Ps 122:6
Willis Canada was the featured singer at the Senior Adult Convention in Pigeon Forge last year. He is very well known and has been used quite a bit in the COG, and he is quite talented. I love it when someone well known will bless a small church like that. In fact, Cojak, if you aren’t busy around April 24th, you might want to consider going to the Senior Adult Convention in Pigeon Forge this year. A lot of it is competition, but there are services to attend also. There would probably be a lot of COG folks you know, too. Let me know if you (or anyone) wants more info, and I’ll get it to you. I won’t be going this year since I won’t be competing (I came in 2nd this year.) I am also having surgery that week. But it’s a nice getaway for seniors. It’s a bit pricey but it’s put together very well, and I really enjoyed it last year.My generation (and yours) had that appreciation for a family feeling with other COG folks. That doesn’t seem as prevalent today, but it is nice when it happens. ________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Probably so. He is real. I met him when I was in the USAF stationed in Missouri and he came out to hold a revival at our church, probably 1961. He hadn’t been out of the army long at the time.________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
You equate Billy Graham and Bill Johnson?Looks like we disagree________________
move________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I hear the heart of your intentions & I too understand the angst.Too bad the post is judged by the topical comparisons.We all know w/out blinking an eye that you weren’t aligning the 2 men’s ministry journey as the same nor are either of them alike in terms of beliefs, theology or even personality.But both men have tried to win the lost & have spent themselves doing so.For the most part those who judge have never set foot there & yet they’re over night experts???When the Toronto revival broke out I never went …never went to Brownsville either.For the record I didn’t agree with all that occurred at either location but I didn’t make it my place to judge those who did go & participate nor was it my place to judge the ways & means of the leaders of said events. One day the battle will be over & God will reveal the truth behind every motive.________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
OTCP, your problem is that you’re evaluating things in an objective way, based on what the Word of God commands and says. You’re watching a video (well, multiple videos) and comparing what you’re seeing done on those videos with what you see in the Word of God. You’re also comparing the teaching and doctrine you hear with Scripture. You’re checking to see if what is being taught lines up with the Bible properly exegeted and interpreted. That’s a big problem.If you just went to Bethel and
It is indeed a big problem, Dave. OTCP has struggled with it for years. I’ve tried Truth Anonymous’ 12-Step Program, Balance Anonymous’ Annual Retreat and Discernment Anonymous’ 6-Month Residential Program. Nothing has helped. It would be so much easier to go with the flow or throng with the wrong or be led by what he/she said. But for some reason I simply can’t escape 1 John 4:1
My family was old time COG Pentecostal – but they loved Graham’s specials. They never missed them. I never missed them (only 1 tv)Jesus preached on National TV – that was a big deal to them. The only thing that surpassed Billy Graham specials was Carl Richardson specials – Jesus
________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Florida website often way out of date.Embarassing________________
The state pages I have looked at are usually behind a bit. Maybe they only update quarterly now? The Echo has changed names over the years & was called TIE in ENC at one time. Looks like now it is just called ENC Statistical Report. It is current thru 2/5/2018________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
I would say that is up to date. That would seem to show January’s reports. I was hoping to see that in WNC, but I ran over there to the Echos, but they are still on DEC,I was wondering yesterday what the ENC would call their paper (if there was one anymore!)THANKS! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
still has notifications up from last year’s Camp Meeting, just in time for this year________________
I agree. When I arrived here the website was badly outdated and the Facebook page was a joke. They had no moderator controls for the page, so people were posting all kind of needless things on the church FB page.
Agreed! Having recently reorganized Roles/Responsibilities with some of the staff there, it’s a shame they still operate like it’s the 1990’s when it comes to their web site. Outdated or missing information along with broken links is unacceptable today. Guess they didn’t get the message that a web site is a direct reflection on the priorities of the office________________“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
I am not active on FB, I go there to wish my ‘many ‘ friends happy Birthday. Then I stick around and comment or ‘like’ some of the entries. I do not know how to manage a WEB site, but most of my grand kids could.That said, many of our pastors of small churches are 75+ and don’t have a ‘smart phone’. They also do not realize that over half of their congregation is on FB regularly and would enjoy a Church web site to drop by EVERY DAY. Just a short ‘daily’ devotion would be great. If you have a WEB site (page) what ever it is called, kill it or keep it up to date. Slothful is a term that would be used if it was 30 years ago, Ignorant (or worse) would be the term used by the youth of today as they SCROLL PAST the dead site. EVEN at 80, my wife is a ‘lurker’ but is constantly interrupting my day with: did you see XYZ xxy on FB? and she knows I am there seldom. She even sees stuff on there from OLD MEN like CARL HART. Now that is old, and he figured it out!Seriously, someone is looking at your website. They may be young and looking for a church. BE READY to serve that searcher or lurker with your web site. Remember when the hungry person slipped in the church door and sat on the back pew, hoping for some thing but NOT knowing WHAT! That kid or young person is now ‘lurking’ on the internet. A gem from DaSheik above:
Since it has been 60 years since I filled out a monthly report to the church I was wondering about payments to state and national. When you or your clerk makes the report, can funds be transferred electronically from EVERY state?If that is true I am amazed that there would be many ‘No Report’ (NR) as #18 mentioned. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Reports themselves can be processed electronically but monies are sent via check.it’s funny how preachers preach to their congregations to make sure and give to God the FIRST fruits but pay their TOT once every three months
I think something worth noting is that their website isn’t designed for the world. At our local churches we are here for our enriched community…that’s not the case at the state level – they are here to serve churches. So we will dig a little deeper and spend a little more time investigating to get our answers. With my local church website I figure we have MAYBE 5-10 seconds before someone has moved on. If things aren’t easy to navigate and clear, then they’ll leave.
I agree 100%. Pastors preach on faithful tithing but are slothful in sending in their reports and money. It is tithe on tithe.
Trump’s (alleged) behavior is also reflective of the open sexual ethic many on the left tend to celebrate in other spheres.
Re: Trump, Pence, and the hypocritical left.
Re: Trump, Pence, and the hypocritical left.
Its almost as if something in their brains are completely disconnected. On the one hand they scream #METOO! and on the other side of their brain they laugh at poor, stupid, prudish, repressive Christians. I guess that’s what its like to have a reprobate mind. Sad, but there is no hope for them. Well said JD!~ ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
A little. Clinton had several women that said he raped them or used his influence over interns. Trump apparently paid for services rendered to Playboy models________________
Different only in that Clinton WAS IN OFFICE, THE DEED WAS DONE there. In most incidences he used ‘SENIOR Power’ to silence the voices. There was one proven incidence with Clinton. So far no hanky panky since he has been running for office or was elected. Any cheating on the wife is FROWNED on by me. In most cases I can appreciate the wife (Or Hubby) ‘forgiving’ the wayward partner. With Divorce so accepted by rank and file now I hate to see our president go thru a divorce by fires started and fanned while he is in office for things before hand.NO i do not look at them the same, except both were STUPID! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
The only thing I read about the budget was from Rand Paul, He wasn’t crazy about it.I haven’t read anything else on it, neither did I read where he had signed it. Did HE?I was hoping he would not sign and let the chips fall. I cannot believe he is tired of fighting an up hill battle. (The up hill battle is honestly part his fault in my opinion.)I really do not like YOUR report on the budget and hope you are lying! OK hope you are exaggerating. LOL Just kidding JDIt sucks bilge water that he cannot get HIS congress behind him. (Remembering Jimmy CArter)I think it might be finally hitting him, this government ain’t wanting to be run like a business, and live on what they take in.I don’t like your report anyway. (Lie to me, I willl feel better) ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
sorry Cojak, its true. And he quickly bragged that he would be banning bump-stocks. I don’t care 2 cents about bump stocks as any serious shooter knows they are just a lazy way of doing something that people have done for years. Once they get that ban, the libs will quickly circle the wagons to announce a new discovery that ALL semi-autos (including pistols), can be bump-fired without a goofy stock, so effectively, they ALL must be banned.
I’ve been reading some posts on forums where the faithful congregate to see the reaction. They seem to be taking a lot of comfort in his promise that while this one was necessary for national security, he’ll never sign a bill like this again. Buuuut… last year he said he’d let the government shut down before he signed a bill like this. How does he know the next omnibus bill won’t be necessary for national security? I bet it will be.
Chuck Schumer Said
As little respect as I have for the man personally, I had thus far liked several of his policy decisions. Nevertheless, I always knew he was at heart a New York liberal, and that his ‘conservatism’ was all a facade to gain votes from easily duped personality cultists, but I have to say his signing of this bill was
I stand by my 2016 prediction that Trump would be a temporary reprieve from having someone like Hillary or Obama. Only the States in convention, by-passing Congress, can make any lasting change. Christians alone could make this happen. Sadly, many Christians do not understand the Constitution but are looking for a godly King or the right kind of Supreme Court Justices________________
Re: Hey RS, what do you think about Trump’s funding of the swamp?
I started to say you ducked the question, but on second thought, you’ve confirmed that he let us all down and there is no spin for this. Sure, he’s not Hillary, but I think Trump’s conservative moves died after the SCOTUS appointment and the tax reform. Someone said he tweeted this morning something like Can I go back and veto it now?. I need to look that up because it makes him a fool if he said it. I’m sure he is under tremendous pressure and really believes the national security narrative. But he should know he is being set-up. He did not get that this is the thing that will turn off the base. Did you hear Rush, Laura and Coulter yesterday? He’d better listen and fast. In the end, this struggle does not hang on Trump. We need to change the battlefield to the one I mentioned previously, Convention of States________________
Trump had no choice but to approve the budget. Too many Obama politicians still there.
Sorry but I got lost, probably just a senior moment (or 15).What I could understand could be transferred to most states. California is very easy to pick on, tis a large target, that is for sure. Imma try to dis cypher some comments. Hope we get some from the West coast! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Yes link, but that’s everywhere not just California, I’m from California I was born and raised there and yes there are some crazy things out thereBut the answer is in what they said these pastors had their **own** ideas, their **own** movements, G-d’s not & never was involved. & 100% right, they steered away from *Righteousness* & u know me link, you know exactly what I’m going to say about Righteousness and what it is😉😇No I see that same thing about California in churches out here in North Carolina, it’s everywhere. That’s the importance of keeping Passover and just getting the leaven sin, torahlessness out of your house, out of the churches, out of your lives, out of your hearts, and live for G-d and follow His WaysThe messages repentanceShabbat shalo________________Ps 122:6
From the Book of Leviticus, which is the book of Holiness for the priests (Rev 1:6) & I want to read the haftorah to you guys out of Jeremiah 7:23-28. Because as I was reading this link, your thread came to mind. I think it flows with your link PerfectlyJer 7:23-28; I Commanded them regarding only *this* matter, saying hear My voice that I may be a G-d unto you and you will be a people into Me, and you shall follow along the entire path in which I Command you, so that it will go well with you24; but they did not hear, they did not incline their ear, and they follow their own counsels and the fancies of their evil heart, they went backwards and not forward. 25; from the day your forefathers left the land of Egypt (story of Passover) until this day, I sent them all My servants the prophets everyday I would send them early in the morning but they would not listen to Me and they would not incline their ear, they stiffened their neck and became more evil than their forefathers27; you will tell them all these things, but they will not listen to you, you will call to them but they will not answer you. 28; you shall tell them, this is a nation that will not listen to the voice of Hashem, it’s G-d, and will not accept rebuke, it’s faith is lost and cut off from their mout________________Ps 122:6
He guaranteed he gets only one term. Dems may back off of the impeachment talk.. ________________
I still would not count him out, though he acted foolishly________________
Millions mean nothing to politicians. I remember years ago the quote of a major politician, Sir, 15 million here, 50 million there and add a few more million, after awhile you are talking real money!It is government as usual. Unless someone can muster a constitutional amendment for time limits this country will be bankrupted by career politicians keeping their jobs. No one has the ‘nerve’ to cut spending it seems. They forever BUY votes with citizen’s money@! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I was not suggesting that anyone not get paid. The question was would they without the salary. Is it truly a calling or career? Some extremely large denominations have administratiors that still pastor. I personally think some very gifted people will not accept administrative positions because it requires abandoning their primary calling. Then you have others that returning to the pastorate would be considered a demotion. They would take any position to stay in the system and not return to the field. You destroy departments by placing uninterested leaders in those jobs. You see this in the local church as well. Real Calling will require sacrifice and determination. My question is are people in a Calling or a Career________________
Consider these:www.amazon.com/Pentecostal-Theology-Living-Systematic-Charismatic/dp/0567275396/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521940374&sr=1-1&dpID=41ta7QhUh4L&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srchwww.amazon.com/Baptized-Spirit-Global-Pentecostal-Theology/dp/0310252369/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521940448&sr=1-1&dpID=41joah59SiL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srchwww.amazon.com/Spirit-Poured-Out-Flesh-Pentecostalism/dp/0801027705/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521940483&sr=1-1&dpID=519s980GqeL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srchwww.amazon.com/Types-Pentecostal-Theology-Method-ACADEMY/dp/0190634324/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521940515&sr=1-1&dpID=51PpsiY8AHL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
Nice! Thank you so much!Is there one or two you’d recommend over the others among that list? I assume the one by you would be high on the list.
Not exactly a systematic theology, but I would highly recommend the following: http://www.amazon.com/Pentecostal-Spirituality-Steven-Jack-Land/dp/0981965148
This is very much along the lines of what I’m looking for, thank you!
http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Pentecostal-Theology-Guy-Duffield/dp/1599793369/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521944510&sr=8-1&keywords=pentecostal+theologywww.amazon.com/Systematic-Theology-Stanley-M-Horton-ebook/dp/B007TCUG1A/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&qid=1521944626&sr=8-30&keywords=pentecostal+theologywww.amazon.com/Biblical-Doctrine-Systematic-Summary-Bible/dp/1433545918/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521945179&sr=1-7&keywords=systematic+theology
In case you haven’t read it, this book might be part of what you’re looking for as it covers a broad stream comparison & definition of pentecostalism.Might not be or might lack in distinctive material though.www.bloomsbury.com/us/pentecostal-theology-9780567387738/From Taylor & Francis online you can probably find distinctive material:
…if you need a shorter list. Difficult to rank the remaining three.
Re: Cut mine…
Funny, I was planning on putting yours at the top since it looks like such an excellent survey based on the Look Inside preview.Thanks again for the excellent suggestions.
I was havin a little fun with this one, Dave.
I’m sorry, but I’m interested dave, why do you want to know a theology________________Ps 122:6
PM me and I’ll be happy to discuss it with you.
PM me and I’ll be happy to discuss it with you. 😠Yea, I was going to do that, Shalo________________Ps 122:6
From the article:The Mountain Press began investigating Baker’s credentials after receiving an unsigned letter saying he didn’t have the academic credentials required for his position.Ouch! Hard ball being played.
Re: Ouch! Hard ball …
Re: Ouch! Hard ball …
No one knows who sent the letter. It didn’t even have a return address on it. Just the recipient’s address, a stamp, and a Pikeville postmark. Somebody sent an unsigned letter, but it wasn’t the ole timer. The article is from 2013
So everyone kept their job even after having a secular investigation proved the degrees were a sham________________
Re: Ouch! Hard ball …
Re: Ouch! Hard ball …
Re: Ouch! Hard ball …
No idea what you’re talking about here, but just to be clear, my statement about the Pikeville postmark was just a joke to poke fun at OTCP. I know nothing about the anonymous letter that was sent. I knowed it was, Dave. OTCP has never sent a anonymous letter in his life–to anybody.
OTCP,Since many posters here on Acts suffer from Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple personalities – screen name personas), are you sure one of your other selves did not do this and OTCP just does not know about it?Just sayin’, anything is possible on Acts.
Mat, I suffer from neither DID or DD. Ummm, let me see how I can say this an get the message across.1. Numerous times I have posted on Acts stating that I post using only pen name—OTCP. 2. I post under no other pen names besides OTCP.3. OTCP is a parody of paradigmatic proportion that needs no other pen names.4. Nobody else posts as OTCP except me.PS, I did post, some 13 years ago for a few weeks, under the name Homer. But when I began proclaiming myself king of the world, hey, folk knowed it was their beloved Homer Tomlinson so I immediately retired the pen name.
Homer Tomlinson that is a hoot. I would love to do a historical feature on him it would make a great documentary. That’s homer in the picture by the way.
Why not some "kings"?
Why not some kings? You can’t swing a dead cat now-a-days without hitting a bunch of bishops, apostles, prophets and doctors, not to mention the arch-bishops. I bet all those boys (and some girls) wish they had the media savvy Homer had. Trying to dress like a biker, or a hipster is so yesterday, so why not a king and queen of the church (and parsonage).
He will be missed________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
From Montreat NewsThe body of the late Rev. Billy Graham will lie in honor at the U.S. Capitol, congressional leaders announced Thursday, with the evangelist becoming the first religious leader to be honored by the nation in that way.Graham, who died Wednesday age 99, will lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda on Feb. 28 and March 1, according to the offices of House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. The two leaders will lead a memorial service once Graham’s casket arrives.Keep in mind, this is a CHRISTIAN LEADER! And this is still a Christian Nation! Contrary to some opinions________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
This was supposed to be just an atta boy to BE’s comment.________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I can’t see any reason why a denomination wouldn’t want to do this for its ministers, or why any upstanding minister should object. Typically I reject the what’s the problem if you don’t have anything to hide? argument — but in this case, I think it’s advantageous for the ministers as well. They can boast that their denomination checks them regularly, and hopefully can boast that they do the same for their elders, staff, and lay leaders. It is also a means of accountability, which is always good for everyone, including the person being held accountable.
I have been out of the electronics loop for many years. Thanks for the information must for my own information. I figured there had to be some thing in place to cover this.Now is this something the Exec. Board could enact or must this be a GA passed idea?I know most ministers would resist the license renewal idea and fee. It would take some PR work that is for sure. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
(Link)
Re: I think I went through MIP with him…
Not a think in Florida makes me wanna live aire, Cojak. Son, its a heap too hot fer the ole timer.An since Minnie & Mickie have both transgendered into the other, I don’t know which is which now..
Yes to all three.
Re: Someone DROWNING is not concerned if the rescuer has a degree.
Do you suppose that God would permit His church to go 2000 years without withdrawing blessing, etc., if it is as big a deal as some make of it?There is a verse in the NT (not where I can look it up right now) that indicates that some esteem one day over another, but implying something far less than literal Sabbath observance.Consider that Christians were not welcomed in synagogues after a certain point. They were somewhat pushed to observe another day of worship, etc.Consider that the Jews’ worship OF the Sabbath caused them to hate the Lord of the Sabbath. They hated Him for His disciples picking corn (if I remember correctly) on the Sabbath. And the Jews were outraged that Jesus had the temerity to heal someone on the Sabbath. The point being that Jesus was breaking their “law†regarding the Sabbath…and no doubt would still be considered breaking it today.
but I’m with travis on this. the call of the pastor and the christian is closer to a teacher than a lifeguard.If you don’t have a real wife, don’t say you have one in hopes to raise your credibility.If you don’t have a real relationship, don’t name drop to make yourself look more connected.if you don’t have a real degree don’t say you have one to make yourself look more qualified.Jimmie- assault theology? thats a bit harsh. Why can’t adults have adult conversations about theology where they disagree. OTCP rings this bell a lot and frankly Im tired of hearing it, but it doesn’t make it less true.
Do you suppose that God would permit His church to go 2000 years without withdrawing blessing, etc., if it is as big a deal as some make of it?There is a verse in the NT (not where I can look it up right now) that indicates that some esteem one day over another, but implying something far less than literal Sabbath observance.Consider that Christians were not welcomed in synagogues after a certain point. They were somewhat pushed to observe another day of worship, etc.Consider that the Jews’ worship OF the Sabbath caused them to hate the Lord of the Sabbath. They hated Him for His disciples picking corn (if I remember correctly) on the Sabbath. And the Jews were outraged that Jesus had the temerity to heal someone on the Sabbath. The point being that Jesus was breaking their “law†regarding the Sabbath…and no doubt would still be considered breaking it today.My issue is NOT with the Law, as I consider it nullified for Christians. My concern is with the Ten Commandments, with transcend the law, in that they are moral commands from before the Law…and after it. Again, I do not fully understand why we feel to keep all but the Sabbath commandment, but it’s hard to argue against the fact that God has continued to bless the church despite the fact that some believe the church to be in terrible disobedience. G-d allows things to go on, but his arm is always stretch out to His people, Christians 2, Rom 10:21. Look how much time passed before Messiah arrived on the scene. These rabbis I’ve been preaching the torch of the people forever, & when Messiah showed up they had no clue who He was…G-d seemed to care about the Sabbath, it was the only day He named, and the only day set aside Holy to Himself, the only day he made an Everlasting Covenant with, and the only day He gave it to us as a gift. Look at the big deal Christians make of Sunday, look what happens when you miss a couple Sundays in a row….as if it’s a big deal. I mean if you can keep Sunday, why can’t we just keep the L-rds Sabbath?Ur verse is Rom 14:5, but how do you know its speaking of the Sabbath day, the Sabbath never mentioned in this chapter. But it does speak of food, so it could have been speaking of a fast day. And verse one speaks of those that are weak in the faithI don’t know where you’re speaking of that Christians were set aside and kicked out of synagogues, because Acts 15:21says something different at the Nicene Council. Jews that believe the Messiah were also kicked out of the synagogue at some point. Christians were never forced into worshipping another day, the Catholic church inscribed Sunday because they hatred the Jews and they tried to change the religion by trying to get the jewishness out of it. This can coincide with resident Skeptics thread& I’m lost, which Jews hated the L-rd of the Sabbath, all the ones that followed Him, His Jewish apostles, or was it the religious Jewish Pharisees. The religious system hated Messiah, & today the religious system hates God’s Torah. It’s reversed. And your whole thing is speaking of the religious system, the scribes and Pharisees, Messiah was breaking their view of the SabbathAnd Aaron, where is your verse that the Laws are nullified for Christians, be careful, & that’s not discipleship, that’s dual covenant theology, and or replacement theology, pick your poison. & My friend, go study the Sabbath yourself in prayer to G-d using the scriptures in all text of the Bible. Remember the family you are grafted into now and what He told them to do, & how to live. Find out who changed it, & may G-d open your eyes and show you the Truth you’re looking forIn Y’shua’s Name amei________________Ps 122:6
Is this honor where honor is due?
I haven’t seen a clip of John Hagee in a really long time. i remember him looking younger________________
😑 That’s not a very good summation, Samson ended up blind, bound, going round & round ðŸ˜________________Ps 122:6