On another thread, it was asked, Is Backsliding Possible? This is one way to cut to the heart of the difference between Arminianism and Calvinism, I think.If a person CAN backslide–i.e., be truly saved, then be lost–then Arminianism is at least partially right (I cannot recall if Arminianism would claim that the backslidden Christian could then repent and be re-saved).If a person CANNOT backslide, then the part of Calvinism is true (the OSAS).I feel confident that the Bible indicates that a person CAN fall away, be lost, backslide, etc. What I am NOT confident about is whether I can make a case that such a person could then come back to the Lord. (NOTE: I am making a distinction between a person sinning and repenting…and a person actually falling away from God, then getting saved again).
I agree with your basic premises.I can see how someone could make an orthodox case, from Scripture, for falling away from the faith and losing one’s salvation (though I don’t affirm that personally).
Here’s the issue as I see it: At what point is a person backslidden? If you cuss? Maybe drink one too many glasses of wine? Harbor unforgiveness for a few days? Covet your neighbor’s wife or his car or his ministry? Do you lose your salvation immediately after doing one of these things or are you given a grace period? If so, how many days? The I lose my salvation every time I willfully sin position has a fatal flaw. Not only does it completely nullify justification by faith, but it leaves no room for discipline and/or rewards. How can God rightfully chasten His children if they don’t belong to Him the moment they sin?
By the way, Romans 1
One is saved as long as they believe.Forsake faith, lose salvation________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
Can this process be repeated?
I don’t think backsliding and unbelief are the same.“‘Return, O backsliding children,’ says the Lord; ‘for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.’â€
Come on DD, as a preacher’s kid I was saved in every revival. and was told I backslide a lot and was going to hell if I didn’t ‘pray thru again. So I did, again and again etc… Now I am smiling . Since I became a parent I know my sons will always be my sons. I have cried as I got them out of jail, as I got them sober or down from some stupid high, never once did I come close to disowning them.I read that my Heavenly father loves me once I was born into his family, he loved me as a son. All that said, I STILL do not know in my heart if my church taught me wrong or if I was just a prodigal?I am enjoying the input. But I do want to stay close to Him to cover all bases. Silly? maybe, but that is me. I know HIS decisions are above my paygrade. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
You sinned! Missed the mark!
For clarification…..are you or someone suggesting….
that someone falls away…..wants to come back and repents but God rejects?Bear with me here….and maybe nobody is saying that God will reject a truly repentent person…..
Speaking just for myself: I no longer affirm that the truly penitent and regenerate fall away (and interpret verses about falling away as pertaining to those who walked with/participated in the visible church but never truly became regenerate).However, I affirmed this view for many years, and when I did I did not believe that anyone who came back would be rejected, but rather that they would simply never desire to come back. Hebrews 6
There are also two elements to biblical repentance, and both are required. The first is regret over wrongdoing, and the second is faith to be forgiven. We sometimes focus on only the first element, but both are required.For example, it is undeniable that Judas was repentant for what he did. It is undeniable that he recognized his sin. In Matthew 27:4, he tells the chief priests, I have sinned by betraying innocent blood. He throws their money back at them, and in his guilt and despair, he hangs himself and dies. No one can dispute that Judas regretted his sin. No one can dispute that Judas despaired over what he had done. However, what he lacked was faith that he could be forgiven. Therefore, his repentance was incomplete and invalid.We can also draw light from the competing narratives of Saul and David. When Saul is confronted with his sin, he immediately acknowledges it and seeks pardon. In 1 Samuel 15:24-25he tells Samuel, I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. Now therefore, please pardon my sin and return with me that I may bow before the Lord. And in verse 30, I have sinned; yet honor me now before the elders of my people and before Israel, and return with me, that I may bow before the Lord your God.Saul absolutely acknowledges his iniquity. He understands it has consequences, and he wants to be spared from those consequences. But he wants to be spared the temporal consequences, without thought to the eternal ones. He is sorrowful and repentant, but without faith to be forgiven for his transgression against God.Compare this to David’s response in Psalm 51, after he is confronted with his sin. Like the others, he acknowledges his sin: Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin! For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me. Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight. And like Saul, he seeks pardon. But unlike the others, he has faith that God can make him clean again:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.8 Let me hear joy and gladness;let the bones that you have broken rejoice.9 Hide your face from my sins,and blot out all my iniquities.10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,and renew a right spirit within me.11 Cast me not away from your presence,and take not your Holy Spirit from me.12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation,and uphold me with a willing spirit.
Speaking just for myself: I no longer affirm that the truly penitent and regenerate fall away (and interpret verses about falling away as pertaining to those who walked with/participated in the visible church but never truly became regenerate).However, I affirmed this view for many years, and when I did I did not believe that anyone who came back would be rejected, but rather that they would simply never desire to come back. Hebrews 6
The old time take you reference is probably drawn from Hebrews 12For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.
I cannot imagine how much WORSE backsliding could be than for, as in Jeremiah, the Father to beg his wayward wife, who had committed adultery with many lovers, to come back yet again.If that is not backsliding, if that is not what we call falling away, then WHAT IS?I think the answer would be this: Falling away is such that God no longer pursues you. Is that place one can be? I don’t know. But if so, it is hell on earth. It means that God has said, Go your way; I no longer care what you do, and I don’t even want to hear about it.
The old time take you reference is probably drawn from Hebrews 12For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.The immediate context makes this passage a questionable selection for this conversation to begin with, and even if the text were relevant to seeking repentance after falling away from faith, it’s clear that Esau either could not or would not bring himself to repent. Not, as those old timers would suggest, that he desperately wanted forgiveness but was rejected by God.