I don’t have any problem with the claim that national Israel is not a fulfillment of prophecy. Israel is a nation, much like any other democracy, and are deserving of our praise or our denouncing, depending on their actions.I do not accept that notion that leads many to overlook Israel’s faults, while not missing the faults of their enemies.HOWEVER, I am against this TRASH of people trashing other views of the Bible as being somehow evil, deluded, false, ungodly, etc. We do that to just about every Christian that disagrees with us. ENOUGH! It’s one thing to believe we are wrong; it is another to act as if we are sending people to hell…that we are heretics, etc.That’s just game-playing. Virtually EVERY doctrine has SOME basis in scripture. It may be wrong. It may not stand under rightly dividing the Word of God. It may falter when you take a fuller view. But let’s not act like people have ZERO REASON to believe as they do.The OSAS group? They have some scriptures to back them. Not enough, I would think, but it’s a fair conclusion to draw.Free Will/Predestination? Both have good reasons for their positions.
The link to which the materials posted can be found at the following website. http://www.bible.ca/premillennialism-rapture-replacement-theology-supersessionism-three-promises-abraham-fulfilled-israel-god-land-joshua-solomon.htmAny attempt to pin[point the exact author ends in a dead end. All is attributed to http://www.bible.ca.One of the interesting claims on its webpage, “Who are we?” (www.bible.ca/seek-about.htm) is whoever they are believe they are emulating the early church established in 33 AD and “human creeds, catechisms & statements of faith cause religious division because they compete with the authority of the Bible and cloud people’s ability to clearly see what the Bible actually says.”And the webpage adds, “With the Bible as our only guide, we seek to find what the original church was like and restore it exactly.”Many of the thoughts I find intriguing.In light of their position it is easy to understand why they refute Darby’s Dispensation and Rapture Doctrine. They view it as man-made doctrine not revealed in Scripture.Thought there are other positions presented I want to address one of the chief components of their argument:Plain Bible passages say that Israel got all the land promised Abraham, where they cite Joshua 21:43-45; 23:14-15; 24:28; 2 Sam 8:3, etc. and they conclude “it is apostate theology to say that God did not give Israel all the land promised to Abraham.Look at 1 Kings 4:21, “Now, Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River [Euphrates] to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt; they brought tribute and served Solomon all the days of his life.”Compare the Promise God gave to Abraham found in Genesis 15:18, “On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, ‘To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates… (see also vvs.19-21)Consider also Genesis 17where God declared His covenant with Abram and his descendants as an “everlasting covenant.”There is a significant difference between the descendants of Abraham inheriting land under Joshua, and possessing the land in fulfillment of the complete territory described and…King Solomon ruling over vassal kingdoms paying him tribute________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
I would need to see the writer’s stand on the civil war, Hitler and, well, people of color in general. That is so right.I can guess though. ________________
I would need to see the writer’s stand on the civil war, Hitler and, well, people of color in general. That is so right.I can guess though. The writer made it clear he was pro-Israel from a political standpoint. Why not take him at his word instead of acting like you work for the DNC________________
Then prepare to be labeled a Nazi loving Jew hater.So many of our brothers here are brainwashed and do not even know it. They have been trained to slander those who might point out some inconsistencies in what is commonly taught on certain historical topics________________
Thank you for a very thought provoking response to the writer’s claims. You raised some excellent points and you didn’t feel the need to accuse anyone of being anti-sematic________________
Who knows? Before I’m through maybe I will, well at least anti-Israel. It it waddles like a duck…As for the claim the original post regarding Israel established as a nation not prophetic, I don’t disagree. No specific prophecy dates the establishment of Israel as a political entity.I do see its establishment, however, as part of the restoration process leading to the spiritual restoration of Israel________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
Who knows? Before I’m through maybe I will, well at least anti-Israel. It it waddles like a duck…As for the claim the original post regarding Israel established as a nation not prophetic, I don’t disagree. No specific prophecy dates the establishment of Israel as a political entity.I do see its establishment, however, as part of the restoration process leading to the spiritual restoration of Israel. So how then are you not anti-Israel and the author is (though he starts with a pro-Israel declaration). Anyone in their right mind can see Israel is the only sane nation in the region. I cannot seem to muster any sympathy for the Philistines…err… I mean, the Palestinians. I also see a difference between Israel as a nation and the global Zionist conspiracy of economic world domination. Stalin was shocked and dismayed when the nation whose creation he supported did not become a Soviet puppet as he had expected. I guess he thought that since Jews had been the backbone of the Bolshevik Revolution, that Israel would be communist. He was wrong. Back in the 90’s, political commentator Chuck Harder came under attack for being anti-Semitic. And why was this accusation brought against him? Simply because he was exposing the monster known as the Federal Reserve. What his attacker did not know was that Harder is 1/4 Jewish himself and had given no thought to the ethnicity of those involved in the founding and operation of the Fed. I suspect his accuser was some knee jerk reactionary on Actscelerate________________
I thought this as well, Mark. Just reading the first chapter of Joshua shows what God had for them, and in chapter 13, when Joshua was old, God told him that there much more land to acquire. It is clear that Israel did not get all that land, clear to the Euphrates, under Joshua.I felt the author was incredibly arrogant. Not an easy read because of his attitude________________The World As I See Itworldjeffreysees.blogspot.com/Revuriah’s Facebookwww.facebook.com/people/Jeff-Richard/1226257444Jeffrey David Richard’s Myspace Musicwww.myspace.com/547856946
I thought this as well, Mark. Just reading the first chapter of Joshua shows what God had for them, and in chapter 13, when Joshua was old, God told him that there much more land to acquire. It is clear that Israel did not get all that land, clear to the Euphrates, under Joshua.I felt the author was incredibly arrogant. Not an easy read because of his attitude. Another fair analysis, on all points________________
Graceless. Typical of the kind of attitude most experience who differ with others.We really need to learn how to dialogue and disagree with love.What you believe about Israel is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Hell is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about the rapture is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Jesus matters________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Graceless. Typical of the kind of attitude most experience who differ with others.We really need to learn how to dialogue and disagree with love.What you believe about Israel is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Hell is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about the rapture is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Jesus matters. I suppose I could have done a better job in choosing an essay that presents the view that the rebirth of Israel did not fulfill any prophecy. The writer’s attitude seems to be distracting and has become the focal point of the thread instead of the substance of his argument. But I have to wonder if all this focus on the writer’s attitude is just a cop out to avoid critically analyzing his point. I have found that Christians want to believe what they want to believe and for the moist part seek to discredit those who disagree with them instead of having true dialog________________
That thought crossed my mind as well. How do you feel about the writer’s stand on Israel________________
I don’t have any problem with the claim that national Israel is not a fulfillment of prophecy. Israel is a nation, much like any other democracy, and are deserving of our praise or our denouncing, depending on their actions.I do not accept that notion that leads many to overlook Israel’s faults, while not missing the faults of their enemies.HOWEVER, I am against this TRASH of people trashing other views of the Bible as being somehow evil, deluded, false, ungodly, etc. We do that to just about every Christian that disagrees with us. ENOUGH! It’s one thing to believe we are wrong; it is another to act as if we are sending people to hell…that we are heretics, etc.That’s just game-playing. Virtually EVERY doctrine has SOME basis in scripture. It may be wrong. It may not stand under rightly dividing the Word of God. It may falter when you take a fuller view. But let’s not act like people have ZERO REASON to believe as they do.The OSAS group? They have some scriptures to back them. Not enough, I would think, but it’s a fair conclusion to draw.Free Will/Predestination? Both have good reasons for their positions.
Origin of Positions cited plus comment (L)
The link to which the materials posted can be found at the following website. http://www.bible.ca/premillennialism-rapture-replacement-theology-supersessionism-three-promises-abraham-fulfilled-israel-god-land-joshua-solomon.htmAny attempt to pin[point the exact author ends in a dead end. All is attributed to http://www.bible.ca.One of the interesting claims on its webpage, “Who are we?” (www.bible.ca/seek-about.htm) is whoever they are believe they are emulating the early church established in 33 AD and “human creeds, catechisms & statements of faith cause religious division because they compete with the authority of the Bible and cloud people’s ability to clearly see what the Bible actually says.”And the webpage adds, “With the Bible as our only guide, we seek to find what the original church was like and restore it exactly.”Many of the thoughts I find intriguing.In light of their position it is easy to understand why they refute Darby’s Dispensation and Rapture Doctrine. They view it as man-made doctrine not revealed in Scripture.Thought there are other positions presented I want to address one of the chief components of their argument:Plain Bible passages say that Israel got all the land promised Abraham, where they cite Joshua 21:43-45; 23:14-15; 24:28; 2 Sam 8:3, etc. and they conclude “it is apostate theology to say that God did not give Israel all the land promised to Abraham.Look at 1 Kings 4:21, “Now, Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River [Euphrates] to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt; they brought tribute and served Solomon all the days of his life.”Compare the Promise God gave to Abraham found in Genesis 15:18, “On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, ‘To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates… (see also vvs.19-21)Consider also Genesis 17where God declared His covenant with Abram and his descendants as an “everlasting covenant.”There is a significant difference between the descendants of Abraham inheriting land under Joshua, and possessing the land in fulfillment of the complete territory described and…King Solomon ruling over vassal kingdoms paying him tribute________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
I would need to see the writer’s stand on the civil war, Hitler and, well, people of color in general. That is so right.I can guess though. ________________
I would need to see the writer’s stand on the civil war, Hitler and, well, people of color in general. That is so right.I can guess though. The writer made it clear he was pro-Israel from a political standpoint. Why not take him at his word instead of acting like you work for the DNC________________
Then prepare to be labeled a Nazi loving Jew hater.So many of our brothers here are brainwashed and do not even know it. They have been trained to slander those who might point out some inconsistencies in what is commonly taught on certain historical topics________________
Thank you for a very thought provoking response to the writer’s claims. You raised some excellent points and you didn’t feel the need to accuse anyone of being anti-sematic________________
Who knows? Before I’m through maybe I will, well at least anti-Israel. It it waddles like a duck…As for the claim the original post regarding Israel established as a nation not prophetic, I don’t disagree. No specific prophecy dates the establishment of Israel as a political entity.I do see its establishment, however, as part of the restoration process leading to the spiritual restoration of Israel________________God-HonoringChrist-CenteredBible-BasedSpirit-Led
Who knows? Before I’m through maybe I will, well at least anti-Israel. It it waddles like a duck…As for the claim the original post regarding Israel established as a nation not prophetic, I don’t disagree. No specific prophecy dates the establishment of Israel as a political entity.I do see its establishment, however, as part of the restoration process leading to the spiritual restoration of Israel. So how then are you not anti-Israel and the author is (though he starts with a pro-Israel declaration). Anyone in their right mind can see Israel is the only sane nation in the region. I cannot seem to muster any sympathy for the Philistines…err… I mean, the Palestinians. I also see a difference between Israel as a nation and the global Zionist conspiracy of economic world domination. Stalin was shocked and dismayed when the nation whose creation he supported did not become a Soviet puppet as he had expected. I guess he thought that since Jews had been the backbone of the Bolshevik Revolution, that Israel would be communist. He was wrong. Back in the 90’s, political commentator Chuck Harder came under attack for being anti-Semitic. And why was this accusation brought against him? Simply because he was exposing the monster known as the Federal Reserve. What his attacker did not know was that Harder is 1/4 Jewish himself and had given no thought to the ethnicity of those involved in the founding and operation of the Fed. I suspect his accuser was some knee jerk reactionary on Actscelerate________________
I thought this as well, Mark. Just reading the first chapter of Joshua shows what God had for them, and in chapter 13, when Joshua was old, God told him that there much more land to acquire. It is clear that Israel did not get all that land, clear to the Euphrates, under Joshua.I felt the author was incredibly arrogant. Not an easy read because of his attitude________________The World As I See Itworldjeffreysees.blogspot.com/Revuriah’s Facebookwww.facebook.com/people/Jeff-Richard/1226257444Jeffrey David Richard’s Myspace Musicwww.myspace.com/547856946
I thought this as well, Mark. Just reading the first chapter of Joshua shows what God had for them, and in chapter 13, when Joshua was old, God told him that there much more land to acquire. It is clear that Israel did not get all that land, clear to the Euphrates, under Joshua.I felt the author was incredibly arrogant. Not an easy read because of his attitude. Another fair analysis, on all points________________
Re: I beg to differ
There certainly is allot of evidence to support that idea________________
Graceless. Typical of the kind of attitude most experience who differ with others.We really need to learn how to dialogue and disagree with love.What you believe about Israel is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Hell is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about the rapture is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Jesus matters________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Graceless. Typical of the kind of attitude most experience who differ with others.We really need to learn how to dialogue and disagree with love.What you believe about Israel is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Hell is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about the rapture is irrelevant to salvation.What you believe about Jesus matters. I suppose I could have done a better job in choosing an essay that presents the view that the rebirth of Israel did not fulfill any prophecy. The writer’s attitude seems to be distracting and has become the focal point of the thread instead of the substance of his argument. But I have to wonder if all this focus on the writer’s attitude is just a cop out to avoid critically analyzing his point. I have found that Christians want to believe what they want to believe and for the moist part seek to discredit those who disagree with them instead of having true dialog________________