That was one of the creepiest things I’ve ever seen!Rodney Howard-Browne, Shawn Bolz, Cindy Jacobs, Kris Vallotton, Bill Johnson, and Katt Kerr (at least, I’m sure there are others) have done the same. Here’s a website showing the amount of time that has passed since each of their declarations:www.piratechristian.com/museum-of-idolatry/2020/3/proof-that-the-charismatic-apostles-and-prophets-are-false-and-powerless
Which is a mainly Lutheran and Concordia college anti word of faith website to mock charismatic ministries who at least are prayng in faith believing that God will answer the cries of their heart to stop this plague. Have you prayed against it? I have and I hope everyone on this forum has prayed that. So your objection is that they believed their prayers were actually answered and that is cause for other Christians to mock them Wow! As I understand Word of Faith it means speaking and believing the Word of God to be true.
I don’t agree with Chris Roseborough about everything, but he is a wonderful brother and a committed defender of the gospel. And yes, I have prayed and will continue to pray for God’s mercy both generally and specifically for people who are suffering or fighting this disease on the front lines, and for an end to this plague.
IF God declares it GONE, it will BE GONE. We have heard of several Christians that have died.Do YOU know a Christian who died of the virus?If not let me tell you of one. 4 weeks ago I attended the funeral of a Christian, my first cousin Kennith. His younger brother Eddie, was at the funeral. I talked with over an hour. He seemed healthy even telling me he was going to move to our town. He and his wife had already looked at a couple places.His doctors have said: TOMORROW, EDDIE, A CHRISTIAN will die. Eddie is the son of a COG preacher. He has been in the COG all his 73 years.Yes tomorrow they will unhook the machines just less than 12 hours. WE will continue to pray for THAT MIRACLE. Was God looking the other way when these men were declaring the VIRUS to be gone and a Christian got infected. Hundreds of people prayed but Eddie will die if his doctor is correct.His wife could not visit him during this 2 weeks. Life is precious________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I’m very sorry to hear this, Cojak. Praying for you and your family.This gets to the point of why these charlatans deserved to be marked and called out. Listen to Copeland here! He sounds like he thinks he is God! Declaring judgment on COVID-19? Ordering it to crawl on its belly? Saying it is finished? These are things that God does, not man. It is blasphemy.These waterless clouds have no power to declare an end to COVID-19. Only God does. And I pray sincerely that our loving Father will do so, in the name of our Lord Jesus. They could be doing the same — humbly praying to God. But instead they declare and decree, like the super apostles they are.
But that’s just the same old problem of why bad things happen to good people. Just remember there is a bad devil.and a good God. We live in a fallen world where unfortunately it rains on the just and unjust.Dave, I dont know you just a newbie here but you typify an attitude of cynicism from traditional Christianity has always had with Pentecostals and then it’s the same attitude many older Pentecostals had with charismatics. The problem stems from how you read the Bible. When people read the Bible and believe it literally without a lot of exegesis and then they act as if the word just says what it says and they stand upon it. You criticize them for believing the Word without your bias as to why it doesnt say what it plainly says. For instance when Copeland et al declare with authority when they pray for something you say who do they think they are, God? No, they think the word says they can say that. Are you right? Are they? Well, I think they are. Can they be arrogant about it? Yes. I hate that part. I hate the excessive prosperity part of theIr teaching but God came to bring us life, a undant life has He not?Anyway here are some scriptures for you to chew on. I know you wont change and I dont want to argue with you but little grace would be nice.(Mat 10:1 NIV) He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them Authority-exousia to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. (Mark 1:27NIV) The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, What is this? A new teaching–and with Authority-exousia! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him. (Mark 2:10-12NIV) But that you may know that the Son of Man has Authority-exousia on earth to forgive sins . . . . He said to the paralytic, {11} I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home. {12} He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, We have never seen anything like this! (Luke 9:1-2NIV) When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and Authority-exousia to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, {2} and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. (Luke 10:19-20NIV) I have given you Authority-exousia to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. {20} However, do not rejoice that the spirits
Pencostalism is not the same thing as WOF. Some of the best historical work against WOF error has been done by the AOG. My issue is NOT with Pentecostalism.
Look, I appreciate your desire to be charitable and your plea for grace, but it just can’t work here. Copeland has spent his career uttering some of the most jaw-dropping heresies of our modern age. He demonstrates that he is not a true believer through the gospel he proclaims. He has deceived countess people and has used their money to hoard astounding wealth.
I grew up in a family who believed in divine healing. So much so that there was no insurance in our family except a life insurance policy that would pay for burial. Daddy knew it was appointed unto man once to die!When I thought I was called to preach his advice was, do not make debts, trust God and he will supply your needs, body and soul.He was firm on prophecy and divine Words from the Lord. If God said it thru any man, IT WILL BE DONE and no amount of disbelief will STOP HIS WILL. His common sense take on scripture was HIS WILL over shadows anything ‘TWO or THREE demand or believe.’ WE are not GOD we are only his Children. Love you all,Cousin Eddie is headed to meet Uncle Doyle and Aunt Julia and a host of family. God is good and life is precious. For one, I am sorry I did not take this Virus very seriously at first. Believing as many, it was just another strain of the Flu. I could not have changed the present situation, but I could have erred on the side of caution. We were asked on this forum, Has your opinion of the Coronavirus changed since first announced.
I know what the creative power of words teaching is all about. But you are ignoring the scriptures. Either we as believers have exousia-authority and dunamis (supernatural power) over diseases and the like or we dont. Jesus said we do
jimmyjon, with respect, I am not going to argue about it because I know that only God can illuminate hearts.I spent the majority of my Christian life as a WOF acolyte. There are many, many posts in the archive of this forum featuring me arguing WOF proof texts at length. I have listened to literally hundreds of hours of Copeland, Hagin, and other WOF luminaries. In 2016, God began a work in my heart and brought me out of that deception. My prayer is ever that He will do the same for others.
jimmyjon, I will leave you with this. Paul prays 41 prayers in the New Testament.Can you find one in which he decrees and declares against a situation?Can you find one in which he speaks to Satan or other forces of darkness and commands them or binds them?
The authority Jesus had and gave his disciples over disease was never used or demonstrated in the way Copeland and Co try to exert it. Why don’t we see in the Scriptures Jesus or Peter or Paul ever binding all cancer in general, for instance? Surely that would have been so much better and more effective, if it were what Jesus meant.
I take it that since we will be lambasted for failing to successfully pray away coronavirus, we should pray that God removes this ONLY IF IT’S WILL, right?Let me tell you what will happen if you DON’T pray for a sick person, or pray for something to happen, it probably won’t happen. BUT AT LEAST WE ARE SAFE FROM THE SCORN OF OTHER CHRISTIANS! AT LEAST THERE’S THAT!I have prayed for many folks who were sick. Most of them DID NOT get well any faster than a control person who was not prayed for. No, I take that back!!!! I once prayed for someone who had a cold, and, sure enough, about a week later, they were MIRACULOUSLY MADE WHOLE!Let’s have the willingness to admit that by Pentecostal we don’t mean much different from what a Baptist believes. That is, it MIGHT happen. I challenge you to find that tool in the apostles’ toolkit. Yes, I know that we often pray and nothing much happens. About the only thing MOST praying does is make the person feel appreciative that you at least prayed for them. If a study were done, I would be willing to bet that the cure rate for those prayed for is not very different at all from those not prayed for…or those who are atheists, for that matter. There may some psychological boost that benefits a believer, but if you control for that, I’m betting we wouldn’t see very much difference, if any.When we make fun or criticize Pentecostals BECAUSE they were bold enough to get out of the boat and walk on the water…but then sank…I’m thinking that most of us didn’t even get out of the boat.Yes, I am against charlatans also. But take care that you are not conflating a true charlatan (someone who is false and KNOW they are false) and someone who truly believes, but is mistaken. There is a huge difference.
I do hear you, my bro. But consider that while we don’t see Jesus and the apostle demonstrating things in the way Copeland and Co. do, neither do we see ANYONE demonstrating faith, miracles, and healings like Jesus and the apostles did!Which is worse: To try to walk in too much faith…or to walk in too little faith?
That was one of the creepiest things I’ve ever seen!Rodney Howard-Browne, Shawn Bolz, Cindy Jacobs, Kris Vallotton, Bill Johnson, and Katt Kerr (at least, I’m sure there are others) have done the same. Here’s a website showing the amount of time that has passed since each of their declarations:www.piratechristian.com/museum-of-idolatry/2020/3/proof-that-the-charismatic-apostles-and-prophets-are-false-and-powerless
Which is a mainly Lutheran and Concordia college anti word of faith website to mock charismatic ministries who at least are prayng in faith believing that God will answer the cries of their heart to stop this plague. Have you prayed against it? I have and I hope everyone on this forum has prayed that. So your objection is that they believed their prayers were actually answered and that is cause for other Christians to mock them Wow! As I understand Word of Faith it means speaking and believing the Word of God to be true.
I don’t agree with Chris Roseborough about everything, but he is a wonderful brother and a committed defender of the gospel. And yes, I have prayed and will continue to pray for God’s mercy both generally and specifically for people who are suffering or fighting this disease on the front lines, and for an end to this plague.
IF God declares it GONE, it will BE GONE. We have heard of several Christians that have died.Do YOU know a Christian who died of the virus?If not let me tell you of one. 4 weeks ago I attended the funeral of a Christian, my first cousin Kennith. His younger brother Eddie, was at the funeral. I talked with over an hour. He seemed healthy even telling me he was going to move to our town. He and his wife had already looked at a couple places.His doctors have said: TOMORROW, EDDIE, A CHRISTIAN will die. Eddie is the son of a COG preacher. He has been in the COG all his 73 years.Yes tomorrow they will unhook the machines just less than 12 hours. WE will continue to pray for THAT MIRACLE. Was God looking the other way when these men were declaring the VIRUS to be gone and a Christian got infected. Hundreds of people prayed but Eddie will die if his doctor is correct.His wife could not visit him during this 2 weeks. Life is precious________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I agree 100%.
I’m very sorry to hear this, Cojak. Praying for you and your family.This gets to the point of why these charlatans deserved to be marked and called out. Listen to Copeland here! He sounds like he thinks he is God! Declaring judgment on COVID-19? Ordering it to crawl on its belly? Saying it is finished? These are things that God does, not man. It is blasphemy.These waterless clouds have no power to declare an end to COVID-19. Only God does. And I pray sincerely that our loving Father will do so, in the name of our Lord Jesus. They could be doing the same — humbly praying to God. But instead they declare and decree, like the super apostles they are.
But that’s just the same old problem of why bad things happen to good people. Just remember there is a bad devil.and a good God. We live in a fallen world where unfortunately it rains on the just and unjust.Dave, I dont know you just a newbie here but you typify an attitude of cynicism from traditional Christianity has always had with Pentecostals and then it’s the same attitude many older Pentecostals had with charismatics. The problem stems from how you read the Bible. When people read the Bible and believe it literally without a lot of exegesis and then they act as if the word just says what it says and they stand upon it. You criticize them for believing the Word without your bias as to why it doesnt say what it plainly says. For instance when Copeland et al declare with authority when they pray for something you say who do they think they are, God? No, they think the word says they can say that. Are you right? Are they? Well, I think they are. Can they be arrogant about it? Yes. I hate that part. I hate the excessive prosperity part of theIr teaching but God came to bring us life, a undant life has He not?Anyway here are some scriptures for you to chew on. I know you wont change and I dont want to argue with you but little grace would be nice.(Mat 10:1 NIV) He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them Authority-exousia to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. (Mark 1:27NIV) The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, What is this? A new teaching–and with Authority-exousia! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him. (Mark 2:10-12NIV) But that you may know that the Son of Man has Authority-exousia on earth to forgive sins . . . . He said to the paralytic, {11} I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home. {12} He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, We have never seen anything like this! (Luke 9:1-2NIV) When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and Authority-exousia to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, {2} and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. (Luke 10:19-20NIV) I have given you Authority-exousia to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. {20} However, do not rejoice that the spirits
Pencostalism is not the same thing as WOF. Some of the best historical work against WOF error has been done by the AOG. My issue is NOT with Pentecostalism.
Look, I appreciate your desire to be charitable and your plea for grace, but it just can’t work here. Copeland has spent his career uttering some of the most jaw-dropping heresies of our modern age. He demonstrates that he is not a true believer through the gospel he proclaims. He has deceived countess people and has used their money to hoard astounding wealth.
I grew up in a family who believed in divine healing. So much so that there was no insurance in our family except a life insurance policy that would pay for burial. Daddy knew it was appointed unto man once to die!When I thought I was called to preach his advice was, do not make debts, trust God and he will supply your needs, body and soul.He was firm on prophecy and divine Words from the Lord. If God said it thru any man, IT WILL BE DONE and no amount of disbelief will STOP HIS WILL. His common sense take on scripture was HIS WILL over shadows anything ‘TWO or THREE demand or believe.’ WE are not GOD we are only his Children. Love you all,Cousin Eddie is headed to meet Uncle Doyle and Aunt Julia and a host of family. God is good and life is precious. For one, I am sorry I did not take this Virus very seriously at first. Believing as many, it was just another strain of the Flu. I could not have changed the present situation, but I could have erred on the side of caution. We were asked on this forum, Has your opinion of the Coronavirus changed since first announced.
Ok fine
I know what the creative power of words teaching is all about. But you are ignoring the scriptures. Either we as believers have exousia-authority and dunamis (supernatural power) over diseases and the like or we dont. Jesus said we do
jimmyjon, with respect, I am not going to argue about it because I know that only God can illuminate hearts.I spent the majority of my Christian life as a WOF acolyte. There are many, many posts in the archive of this forum featuring me arguing WOF proof texts at length. I have listened to literally hundreds of hours of Copeland, Hagin, and other WOF luminaries. In 2016, God began a work in my heart and brought me out of that deception. My prayer is ever that He will do the same for others.
jimmyjon, I will leave you with this. Paul prays 41 prayers in the New Testament.Can you find one in which he decrees and declares against a situation?Can you find one in which he speaks to Satan or other forces of darkness and commands them or binds them?
The authority Jesus had and gave his disciples over disease was never used or demonstrated in the way Copeland and Co try to exert it. Why don’t we see in the Scriptures Jesus or Peter or Paul ever binding all cancer in general, for instance? Surely that would have been so much better and more effective, if it were what Jesus meant.
I take it that since we will be lambasted for failing to successfully pray away coronavirus, we should pray that God removes this ONLY IF IT’S WILL, right?Let me tell you what will happen if you DON’T pray for a sick person, or pray for something to happen, it probably won’t happen. BUT AT LEAST WE ARE SAFE FROM THE SCORN OF OTHER CHRISTIANS! AT LEAST THERE’S THAT!I have prayed for many folks who were sick. Most of them DID NOT get well any faster than a control person who was not prayed for. No, I take that back!!!! I once prayed for someone who had a cold, and, sure enough, about a week later, they were MIRACULOUSLY MADE WHOLE!Let’s have the willingness to admit that by Pentecostal we don’t mean much different from what a Baptist believes. That is, it MIGHT happen. I challenge you to find that tool in the apostles’ toolkit. Yes, I know that we often pray and nothing much happens. About the only thing MOST praying does is make the person feel appreciative that you at least prayed for them. If a study were done, I would be willing to bet that the cure rate for those prayed for is not very different at all from those not prayed for…or those who are atheists, for that matter. There may some psychological boost that benefits a believer, but if you control for that, I’m betting we wouldn’t see very much difference, if any.When we make fun or criticize Pentecostals BECAUSE they were bold enough to get out of the boat and walk on the water…but then sank…I’m thinking that most of us didn’t even get out of the boat.Yes, I am against charlatans also. But take care that you are not conflating a true charlatan (someone who is false and KNOW they are false) and someone who truly believes, but is mistaken. There is a huge difference.
I do hear you, my bro. But consider that while we don’t see Jesus and the apostle demonstrating things in the way Copeland and Co. do, neither do we see ANYONE demonstrating faith, miracles, and healings like Jesus and the apostles did!Which is worse: To try to walk in too much faith…or to walk in too little faith?