Im ok with the idea of it but i have never met a lady pastor so i am unfamiliar with the application of it. I don see why we should stand in the way unless we impose the whole scripture (i feel out of context) for women to keep silent in the church. It isnt something i have studied really though.
I do not agree with making women Ordained Bishops. Ordained Licenced Ministers, fine. But not Bishops. I also do not agree with women pastoring a church. I have no problem with women preaching or evangelizing. But I do not agree with a woman pastoring a church. I suppose I should get ready for my thrashing now.
I think the GA floor should be opened upped to ordained and Bishop’s, I am a Bishop myself, we need to include in my opinion the ordained and woman can get to that level. Doing this would solve multiple problems at once.
God created women equally in His image. There were women used by God to prophesy in the OT and in the NT. There is even SCRIPTURE inspired through women.
And we are quibbling over who gets to be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Jesus said, “It shall not be so among you.” What part of “it shall not be so” do we not understand?
Okay so to be devil’s advocate here, since Paul gave specific instruction for women NOT to override a man’s authority, where does that line get drawn? Or do we ignore this verse because it’s an outdated school of thought?
The Bible says Bishop’s should be the Husband of one Wife. It’s the word, the order is set. My option includes those who are not in the conversation now, if the women in the COG that are minister’s want to push the Bishop status thing, then to me they are going down the wrong path to get involved and have the chance to be in the big conversation.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. I Cor 14:34
1 Timothy 2:12 KJVS
[12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Where do you rightly divide this? If you believe the rest that women cant teach preach dont they have to be completely silent?
I had always heard (haven’t dove into historical research personally) that the sanctuary was divided with men on one side and women on the other, thus requiring women to remain silent until service was dismissed.
I see this as being a topic that causes division in many ways because there are arguments on either side of the fence that appear great but I just have to read Scripture and see that an order was placed for the offices of the church and go with that.
Ricky Grimsley, you will be hard pressed to find support that women have to remain completely silent in church. If you exegete enough you’ll find the scripture.
Voddie Baucham has an interesting commentary. He was asked “What if a woman feels she is gifted to preach or teach?” His answer was that not everyone gets to do everything they feel gifted in. We have abilities that will not be used, at least in the context we may think.
If one really wants to play devil’s advocate we could ask where in scripture can we find evidence to support a denominational structure built upon the foundation of the transgressions of Tomlinson,
Get rid of all bishops. Why do people need a title any way…. how ever I believe in and support whole heartily women pastors, evangelists, and ministers. And this is for sure there would not be a church of god anywhere without the ladies who have often worked so hard to teach, raise funds for buildings and missions. They should have equal say in the church.
It’s confusing. The whole COG (Cleveland) clergy system is so removed in a lot of ways from what we see in scripture, how can one know what to be in favor of and what to be against? In the Bible, the apostles appointed elders from within the congregation. Paul told the elders of Ephesus to pastor the church of God over whom the Holy Ghost had made them bishops.
So apparently the elders of the local church are bishops and they are supposed to pastor. But in the COG (Cleveland) there are pastors of local churches who aren’t recognized as bishops. A ‘bishop’ is someone who has been in the denomination a long time and jumped through the proper hoops. Where is the denomination in scripture? Where is the idea of having papers or ordination with a denomination in scripture?
As far as the Biblical role of bishop goes, the role that Titus and Timothy were to appoint people to be in, one of the qualifications was to be a man… a one woman man. Titus 1 and I Timothy 3 use two different words for ‘man’ when they say this.
The Servicemen’s representative, Edwin King, while visiting us in Turkey in 75 told me that the Church was too big now for the Holy Spirit to administer and that now in contrast to Acts of the Apostles he had to let men operate the church.
I believe he was giving me a personal view directed toward me!
Today that is true and the Holy Ghost has not approved that view.
We need to operate by the Bible model instead of looking for a working model. A modern social church must fit in with multi-cultures and seek a role that works.
Charles Page, you asked about I Corinthians 14: 34, 35.
If you were to apply these two verses precisely as they are written, you would forbid all singing by women. Silence means silence.
Yet, both the OT and the NT have women leading the congregation in singing, prophesying, and speaking inspired Scriptures, besides telling men how to view Scripture! (Deborah, Huldah, Mary, Elizabeth, Priscilla, Phillip’s daughters…)
Obviously, something about this Scripture in 1 Cor 14 is out of sync with the rest of Scripture!
Paul had just given instructions for women prophesying in chapter 11, and now, does he turn right around and tell them they can’t after all??!
Fact is, I Cor 14:34 and 35 are part of the discussion of operation in the gifts… Paul had just finished telling them that they ALL may prophesy, one by one.
And then, verse 36 again speaks of the word of God coming to them…
Look carefully at verse 36. SOMEONE was trying to shut someone up. SOMEONE who thought the word of God was coming ONLY to them, or only through them.
Verse 36 begins with a Greek disjunctive conjunction. Translated literally into our vernacular, Paul was saying “No way!” or “NOT!”
So, what was going on here?
We have to remember why the book of 1 Corinthians was written.
It was Paul’s response to a letter full of questions, written from Corinth. Throughout this letter, there are questions, and Paul is responding to these questions. It can be a bit tricky to interpret this book, if you aren’t looking for the signs that indicate which parts are questions Paul is quoting from their letters, and which parts are his answers.
For instance, in chapter 6:
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Paul seems to say every sin a man does, is outside of his body. But is that true? No. There are many sins committed in (and against) our bodies. (Gluttony, drunkeness, etc.)
The clue is that little word “but.”
(it’s the same word found at the beginning of I Cor. 14:36.)
Paul commands, “flee fornication.”
then Paul quotes from their letter, “every sin … is without the body.”
And then Paul objects to that quote:
“BUT, he that committeth fornication…!)
And then, Paul uses that little word again, “What?”
…and (just like in chapter 14:36) he then gives the REASON he is protesting their heretical idea.
Now, back to chapter14. verses 34&35 are quotes from that lost letter.
Paul did not command those verses.
Instead, he objects to those ideas, in verse 36.
… In fact, the words, “as also saith the law” prove it.
These ideas are NOWHERE found in the OT.
Instead, they are found in the MISHNAH–which was at the time of Paul only in oral form, as the traditions of the elders–the rabbis whose teachings the Pharisees followed… who Jesus worked so hard against!
The law referred to here, is not God’s law, but the extra laws of the Pharisees… the folks who invented the “women’s court” of the Temple. That was never prescribed by God, either.
In 1 Cor 14, 34,35, it was the men, who were trying to shut the women up. But Paul said, “What? did the word of God come to you only? or did it come through you only?”
No. the word of God has come to women also. And through women, too.
Ok with me to have female bishops. I had a godly lady pastor growing up so I am a bit more open to this idea.
Im ok with the idea of it but i have never met a lady pastor so i am unfamiliar with the application of it. I don see why we should stand in the way unless we impose the whole scripture (i feel out of context) for women to keep silent in the church. It isnt something i have studied really though.
I do not agree with making women Ordained Bishops. Ordained Licenced Ministers, fine. But not Bishops. I also do not agree with women pastoring a church. I have no problem with women preaching or evangelizing. But I do not agree with a woman pastoring a church. I suppose I should get ready for my thrashing now.
Are we talking about women who are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or transgender? This could be future discussion in the COG.
I think the GA floor should be opened upped to ordained and Bishop’s, I am a Bishop myself, we need to include in my opinion the ordained and woman can get to that level. Doing this would solve multiple problems at once.
God created women equally in His image. There were women used by God to prophesy in the OT and in the NT. There is even SCRIPTURE inspired through women.
And we are quibbling over who gets to be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Jesus said, “It shall not be so among you.” What part of “it shall not be so” do we not understand?
If we are the “bride of christ” arent we all women anyway? Jk
Okay so to be devil’s advocate here, since Paul gave specific instruction for women NOT to override a man’s authority, where does that line get drawn? Or do we ignore this verse because it’s an outdated school of thought?
The Bible says Bishop’s should be the Husband of one Wife. It’s the word, the order is set. My option includes those who are not in the conversation now, if the women in the COG that are minister’s want to push the Bishop status thing, then to me they are going down the wrong path to get involved and have the chance to be in the big conversation.
There is no line. If you take that text from timothy and apply it to the whole church……women cant even speak can they? To me you have to pick.
you do have to rightly divide the word
Well i would love to hear some commentary on “let your women be silent” lol
can’t quote scripture? give interpretations? comment?
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. I Cor 14:34
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. I Tim 2:12
1 Timothy 2:12 KJVS
[12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Where do you rightly divide this? If you believe the rest that women cant teach preach dont they have to be completely silent?
let the commentary roll
I had always heard (haven’t dove into historical research personally) that the sanctuary was divided with men on one side and women on the other, thus requiring women to remain silent until service was dismissed.
I see this as being a topic that causes division in many ways because there are arguments on either side of the fence that appear great but I just have to read Scripture and see that an order was placed for the offices of the church and go with that.
Ricky Grimsley, you will be hard pressed to find support that women have to remain completely silent in church. If you exegete enough you’ll find the scripture.
Voddie Baucham has an interesting commentary. He was asked “What if a woman feels she is gifted to preach or teach?” His answer was that not everyone gets to do everything they feel gifted in. We have abilities that will not be used, at least in the context we may think.
If one really wants to play devil’s advocate we could ask where in scripture can we find evidence to support a denominational structure built upon the foundation of the transgressions of Tomlinson,
Get rid of all bishops. Why do people need a title any way…. how ever I believe in and support whole heartily women pastors, evangelists, and ministers. And this is for sure there would not be a church of god anywhere without the ladies who have often worked so hard to teach, raise funds for buildings and missions. They should have equal say in the church.
It’s confusing. The whole COG (Cleveland) clergy system is so removed in a lot of ways from what we see in scripture, how can one know what to be in favor of and what to be against? In the Bible, the apostles appointed elders from within the congregation. Paul told the elders of Ephesus to pastor the church of God over whom the Holy Ghost had made them bishops.
So apparently the elders of the local church are bishops and they are supposed to pastor. But in the COG (Cleveland) there are pastors of local churches who aren’t recognized as bishops. A ‘bishop’ is someone who has been in the denomination a long time and jumped through the proper hoops. Where is the denomination in scripture? Where is the idea of having papers or ordination with a denomination in scripture?
As far as the Biblical role of bishop goes, the role that Titus and Timothy were to appoint people to be in, one of the qualifications was to be a man… a one woman man. Titus 1 and I Timothy 3 use two different words for ‘man’ when they say this.
The Servicemen’s representative, Edwin King, while visiting us in Turkey in 75 told me that the Church was too big now for the Holy Spirit to administer and that now in contrast to Acts of the Apostles he had to let men operate the church.
I believe he was giving me a personal view directed toward me!
Today that is true and the Holy Ghost has not approved that view.
We need to operate by the Bible model instead of looking for a working model. A modern social church must fit in with multi-cultures and seek a role that works.
Charles Page, you asked about I Corinthians 14: 34, 35.
If you were to apply these two verses precisely as they are written, you would forbid all singing by women. Silence means silence.
Yet, both the OT and the NT have women leading the congregation in singing, prophesying, and speaking inspired Scriptures, besides telling men how to view Scripture! (Deborah, Huldah, Mary, Elizabeth, Priscilla, Phillip’s daughters…)
Obviously, something about this Scripture in 1 Cor 14 is out of sync with the rest of Scripture!
Paul had just given instructions for women prophesying in chapter 11, and now, does he turn right around and tell them they can’t after all??!
Fact is, I Cor 14:34 and 35 are part of the discussion of operation in the gifts… Paul had just finished telling them that they ALL may prophesy, one by one.
And then, verse 36 again speaks of the word of God coming to them…
Look carefully at verse 36. SOMEONE was trying to shut someone up. SOMEONE who thought the word of God was coming ONLY to them, or only through them.
Verse 36 begins with a Greek disjunctive conjunction. Translated literally into our vernacular, Paul was saying “No way!” or “NOT!”
So, what was going on here?
We have to remember why the book of 1 Corinthians was written.
It was Paul’s response to a letter full of questions, written from Corinth. Throughout this letter, there are questions, and Paul is responding to these questions. It can be a bit tricky to interpret this book, if you aren’t looking for the signs that indicate which parts are questions Paul is quoting from their letters, and which parts are his answers.
For instance, in chapter 6:
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Paul seems to say every sin a man does, is outside of his body. But is that true? No. There are many sins committed in (and against) our bodies. (Gluttony, drunkeness, etc.)
The clue is that little word “but.”
(it’s the same word found at the beginning of I Cor. 14:36.)
Paul commands, “flee fornication.”
then Paul quotes from their letter, “every sin … is without the body.”
And then Paul objects to that quote:
“BUT, he that committeth fornication…!)
And then, Paul uses that little word again, “What?”
…and (just like in chapter 14:36) he then gives the REASON he is protesting their heretical idea.
Now, back to chapter14. verses 34&35 are quotes from that lost letter.
Paul did not command those verses.
Instead, he objects to those ideas, in verse 36.
… In fact, the words, “as also saith the law” prove it.
These ideas are NOWHERE found in the OT.
Instead, they are found in the MISHNAH–which was at the time of Paul only in oral form, as the traditions of the elders–the rabbis whose teachings the Pharisees followed… who Jesus worked so hard against!
The law referred to here, is not God’s law, but the extra laws of the Pharisees… the folks who invented the “women’s court” of the Temple. That was never prescribed by God, either.
In 1 Cor 14, 34,35, it was the men, who were trying to shut the women up. But Paul said, “What? did the word of God come to you only? or did it come through you only?”
No. the word of God has come to women also. And through women, too.