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I work out about four days a week at a gym a mile or so from the hospital where I serve as a Chaplain. That's not meant to brag because by the time you reach 60, all the workouts don't build much muscle, BUT they do at least slow down the gradual loss of muscle that sets in as we grow older and it improves your overall health and strength. The only people who are not growing older, are those who have departed from us.One of the young women working behind the counter, is a kind, gracious person. We have had numbers of friendly chats at the protein drink counter. I basically like almost any protein drink that includes peanut butter which kind of defeats the point of the protein shake . I had no idea she was married to another woman until Friday of last week, when she asked to speak with me. With tears in her eyes, she said her marriage to a woman, her husband, was falling apart. Would I be willing to try and help them save their marriage?I said, I have another appointment that I have to get to, but I will get back to you. She gave me her contact info and I am going to keep my promise to get back to her.After thinking about it, here are some of my thoughts about the situation. I WELCOME your input and wise counsel; agree or disagree. Your counsel will be received with appreciation and respect. FIRST, I am glad she has asked me to help. It brings her in contact with someone who cares about her. It brings her in contact with someone who has the love of Christ in their heart. It shows that she has gained confidence in me. SECOND, this is not a case of someone who has a rebellious atttude and wants to find a way to keep doing it. These precious young girls, in their early 20's, have no concept of our dedication to Scripture and the strong stand it takes. THIRD, their problem is not because of sinful living. All of us, especially me it seems, have at times struggled with sin - still do sometimes. Apostle Paul felt like that when he expressed WHEN THE BAD GUYS GET TOGETHER THEY CALL ME BOSS. He referred to himself as the Chief among sinners. So, this sinner (me), saved-by-Grace, has no right to point a condemning finger at anyone or look down on anyone.I was drowning in sin and Jesus rescued me. Now, I am commissioned to give a lifting hand to all around me who will let me. For reasons I am yet to learn, the Lord Jesus has put me where someone who is hurting, can reach out to me. The problem this young couple has, is exactly as mine was. I was not lost because of wrong stuff I was doing. I was lost in sin because of not knowing Christ, accepting Him into my life. After I accepted Christ, He began to lead me in different paths of behavior. I am never surprised that people who do not know the Lord, get involved in all kinds of things not taught in Scripture.FOURTH, my role as a Chaplain, is often an open door to those who are not involved in church at all. In fact, many of the people I am able to minister to, have never been in church-EVER. Which blows me away because I have been attending church since before I was born. Mom was the pastor's wife.FIVE: I so much want to be a blessing to these young women. God has not brought me into contact with them to leap out with condemnations. I remember Matthew 16:17and the Whom do you say that I am, question Jesus put to Apostle Peter. When Peter replied that Jesus was the Christ, the Lord replied, Flesh and blood have not reveiled this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.This is a situation where I must not flesh and blood it. I must be sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirt. He will make every effort to reach out to them too. I do not believe He would back away from them so I am not either. However, I seek the Lord's wisdom in broaching the subject of right and wrong according to Scripture.SIX: I do care about these young women and will attempt to be a caring Chaplain to them, but your prayers and wise counsel are most [email protected]

I certainly admire your willingness to try to give wise counsel. This is way above my paygrade. My feelings/approach to the subject of gay is not much different than to a drug addict, it is sin. I have a cousin who is gay and the BEST to his parents than the other 4 children who were leaches. He was/is a giver.I had a friend, now passed, who was gay. These are the only ones I have personally know and interacted with. They both knew my beliefs and stand. I would not have known ANY advice to give them in an incident as you describe. It is definitely a challenge and it does require a lot of prayer, tact, love and understanding. You have my prayers my friend. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

Doyle I do not have any wisdom here. But I know the One who does.I will pray for you concerning these young women Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com

With your sweet and gentle spirit, it looks to me that you would have to tell them the Word of God is against their union. You could give them the scriptures against their lifestyle. I am thinking of the prophet who was asked to prophesy against a people but he could not. If a preacher came to you and said he was comitting adultry and wanted to divorce his wife and marry this other woman, I am sure you would tell him in a gentle way that it is against the Word of God. It is not always poplular to tell it like it is, but, as a minister, we have to. We had a similiar situation a few years ago. A young man whom we had known since he was a teenager - He had been saved and filled with the Holy Ghost. We even married him to his wife and they had 2 children. They end up divorcing as she comitted adultry numerous times and thought he should take her back with no questions asked. Anyway, after a few years, he sends us an e-mail that has a boyfried and he sees nothing wrong with homosexuality. He had always been against it all the years we had known him. I even gave him the scriptue about Samson and he knew not that the spirit of God had departed from him. He is still living in that lifestyle and in business for himself and thinks just because he is doing well in business that God must surely approve of his lifestyle. We had to tell him the truth as we were going to move to his area and help him with his business but knew that we could not by his living in the homosexual lifestyle. We still pray for him earnestly and waiting on God for deliverence. It is a sad situation as we both loved him and treated him like our other son.

Doyle, chaplaincy ministry is exciting but always challenging. This would make a good verbatim for you to also review with your peers and supervisor. My own initial thoughts are that you have to get clear about what this woman is needing from you. Is she looking for relationship guidance and if so why is she wanting to talk to you instead of a therapist? I assume she knows you are a chaplain and if so then I think it would be wise to let her know that if you counsel with her in any way it will also include the sharing of your own spiritual perspective. This sharing would not be for the purposes of condemning her but helping her to see that part of any healthy relationship is also having a healthy spiritual dimension and in your view that means following what Christ presents in the Bible. You can accept her and acceptance does not equal approval but it can open a doorway for further reflection on the choices she has made/is making.I have other thoughts but I will hold those until others have a chance to respond here

There is a lot of 'thinking' in that highlighted line. Very good, in my mind. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

We must always do as Jesus did.If he ran into someone living a life that would never lead to ultimate wholeness...how did he handle it

In seeking wise counsel from my fellow posters, I may have given the indication that I was not going to share with these precious young women what Scripture says.The truth must be spoken and they need to hear it. But, I do not want how that is done, to come off in a way that will run them away. If they run away, let it be because of their reaction to Scripture, not a lack of wisdom on my part.As long as possible, I would like to keep a door of contact open to them. I am concerned for them and my heart is full of Christs' love for them.I have been reading your responses and so much appreciate your thought-provoking input. And you are completely right. These precious girls do need to hear what Scripture says. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. By hearing, and by the guiding of the Holy Spirit, I pray they do come to faith in Christ.When you pray, remember them in prayer and that I will have wisdom in sharing the love the Lord with them.Doyl

Sometimes there are situations that aren't as black and white as we want it to be. Compassion doesn't mean compromise.

Wow Doyle. That is a doosey of a challenge. I'm not a pastor, so I'm not much help from that perspective. But, I do know it should be preceded by prayer and fasting for guidance. From all I've observed from you over the years, I do believe you will approach them with humility and kindness. That said, I will give my perspective mostly from a secular viewpoint. From a PR perspective, I believe I would start by telling them you hope they will find peace in the situation and that you are not there to condemn them (the word and the spirit should do that). I would start by quoting the scripture about peace that passes all understanding and that they can have this peace. I would tell them that you do not want to hurt them as they are hurting already. I think I would ask if they would be willing to pray that His will be done with an open heart. To lead to the message you may preface it with what would they do if they saw a small child approach a hot stove. Would they ignore it? Would they encourage it? Would they want the child to be hurt. Would they be hurting the child's feelings by telling them to avoid the stove. Then, indicate that you wish you could avoid telling them the scripture in a similar way to having to tell a child to avoid the hot stove. We are ALL sinners and have come short of the glory of God. It isn't YOU saying this, but is wisdom from the God, the creator of the universe in all HIS wisdom. I don't know that my bright idea is so bright, I acknowledge that my approach may be perceived as being misleading at the beginning. But, YOU don't want to hurt them, YOU don't want to condemn them, but the Spirit may condemn them, you are merely a conduit. I don't know if this is the best way or not, but it is my ideas.As I said at the onset, I'm not a preacher, however, in my career, I've had to approach many highly upset people and I have done a good job of being able to calm people down and address issues without being offensive. I'm not so sure if my secular approach would work in this situation and other more learned counsel could well say I'm off my rocker, and I can't truly disagree. I am open that I'm approaching it from my secular experience and not as a spiritual advisor and my idea may not work and may not be proper. I don't know the answer, but that was my best guess. I've had to calm down a person where I got a call from a psycharitrist that a person was coming to my office with a gun and was psychotic. I have truly been in some incredibly tense situations and almost without exception was able to calm them down by my approach and demeaner. I do have quite a bit of experience in those areas and if I say so myself, I was quite successful. The approach is to address areas of commonality before areas of disagreement and to do it in a calm rationale manner. I understand this may not start as a confrontational matter, but it could quickly turn to one if not handled wisely. Your responsibility is far greater than my issues were with dealing with difficult situations. Your responsibility is for their soul and it totally diminishes the little issues I have dealt. I am thankful I am not put in your situation. I don't know that I've helped, but it is my best advice that I know to give.But, first and foremost is prayer and fasting before you meet them. That, I know does stand the test of time and is Biblical.