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The church we currently attend launched a vision last year called all in which is asking the congregation for $37Million over 2 years to build a life center/fellowship-hall/wedding-chappel/multi-purpose building. When I started considering that this project may add 400 people or so (at best) to an already large church (running around 2500 across 2 services on Sunday), I really am struggling sharing the vision. Had the vision-casting service been something like we are going to pay off the debts of nearly every church in the city (something that likely could be done with 37Million), so that around 74 churches running 150 or so can double in the next few years, I think I could have been gung-ho about it. As it stands, its really shaking me to get to church and see this large extra building growing and hear the sermon be about giving more toward it, and how we had to take a loan, but we believe you're going to give to pay it off sermons when I know of unsaved people that are attending today that really don't need to hear another money sermon in the most affluent church in the city.

We all know it costs loads of money to do ministry

Large ministry costs LARGE money. 37 mill however seems overly large. Our new facility will cost us over 3 million just for the buildings. Could we pay off a few churches loans? Yep we could but this is the vision we have. We feed the hungry and clothe the naked and do tremendous amounts of evangelism in our city, more than anyone else frankly. So what's right? I don't know but this is where we are. Is 37 mill a lot, seems like it to me, i might be more inclined to keep adding service times for awhile. 2500 people is good but if you're only going to grow to 3000, seems like a bit heavy but you might grow to 5000 (however a lot of that growth usually comes at the expense of the smaller churches in your area who can't compete with your bells and whistles). If all our growth would come from the unsaved, that would be great but probably unrealistic. Do we really need to put the small churches out of business and spend 37 mill in the process? Don't know, probably not, maybe so.

Where were you before they voted to go in 37 mil debt?If you weren't crying foul before hand, why cry now?Of course, you would have been said to be touching God's anointed, calamity will strike you when you do that, rebellion as the sin of witchcraft, etc... but if you are right, you are right, right

that's a large amount of money! As a Pastor, I have a difficult time asking for more and more money. I thinks it's because as I was growing up we had the Baker scandal and my grandparents were taken advantage of by a Pastor so, I struggle with asking for more. So far, when I have gone to the church they gladly give or at least do their best to give. I think this is why, I have sought to buy a building that is producing income. Trying to be a good steward and invest in something that gives a return.

I am not sure, BUT we attended the 'Tabernacle of Praise' a couple times in Clermont, FL (Not sure that was the name), but it was the huge facility on a hill over looking a large area of Florida. I was disheartened as I listened to (or watched) the new pastor try to raise 13 million. It never happened and now the facility is owned by the city and houses some local government offices.I felt sorry for the congregation, they seemed to be a giving lot, but 13 mil is a huge amount of money. I cannot imagine 37 mil.I personally couldn't handle it from the pew, but I am not involved and would be leery in giving advice or even suggestions Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

UncleJD,A friend of mine here in Modesto pastored a large A/G church that happens to be on one of the busiest corners in our city. 25 years ago he challenged the people to see his vision & to help build a church structure with a sanctuary that seats over 2,500. At the time they were about 800 strong at best but he kept on casting the vision to finish the gorgeous new facility. A lot of his people left him & he said for awhile he didn't think the church would survive the mass exodus because people thought he was trying to build himself a memorial building to remember him by after retirement. There were a lot of doubters!They finally finished the building and some people came back but he never filled it up on a regular basis and not long after retired. Before he retired he brought in his replacement who was younger & who also had lots of vision.The church began to grow by the hundreds and then the thousands. Today it is listed in the top 100 largest churches in America. Most of the naysayers who couldn't catch the vision came back & to this day the former pastor who is almost 90 still comes by & worships with the church family & today they treat him with the respect he always deserved. As a pastor it's tough to come to the church and ask for money, it's tough to ask for $30,000 much less $30 mil. If a pastor who is backed & supported by the elected board members and who has the vision to cast such an awesome ministry plan comes to the pulpit & makes his case, the last thing he needs are defectors. Even if you don't line up with his vision & even if you don't give very much to the cause, it still doesn't mean give up on the church ministry as a whole. The enemy gets a lot of victory out of Christians who question & doubt everything their pastor does when it comes to planning for the future. He specializes in division & far too often we unknowingly help him out.I for one would stick it out & offer as much help & support you can give with the guidance of the Holy Ghost. Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!

Thats about $142 per person per week for two years above your tithes. Back out the kids and those that dont pay tithes and the number goes up quick and exponentially.life center/fellowship-hall/wedding-chappel/multi-purpose building

Commitments are elusive things. One must decide for themselves a pastor's commitment for the long haul. The largest complaint about debts is a charismatic minister fires up a congregation and they believe HIS VISION, once the buildings are built and the pressure of the huge payments continue year after year, he wears out and feels a call somewhere else, leaving a huge debt for someone else to raise. That is not always true, but it is TOO many times. mulit millions always have a huge payment and interest attached. Raise the money and pay cash is the BEST way to go, and keep everyone honest and happy. If it can be raised after, it can surely be raised before! I am strictly a cash and carry man. Debt free for me and my church, when I have a vote! Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

That's a great story Dean, thanks and I rejoice for that body. In our situation, we are not adding a square foot to the sanctuary. The capacity will remain the same.BTW, there was no vote among the body, there was a big presentation and a sign-up card.I currently don't give but I want to start giving X percent I currently give but I want to go from X percent to I currently give 10% but I want to go to 15% Or something like that. Now bring it down the the front all of you at once!( I felt pressured. so I took my blank card down and put it in the buckets, it was a panic move but I felt pressured like a master salesman was putting the squeeze on me )