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In another thread Eddie posted a link to a church culture evaluation blog and it links to apps and programs you can subscribe to (another money maker for somebody) and implement in your church to see it grow and minister to families in small groups. All worthy things, I guess especially if you're not especially creative. I am NOT old fashioned, I have a very YOUNG church (see Marty Baker's thread) but a young numerical age but mature seekers after the Presence and Anointing of God.We can disagree about some of what I believe re doctrine but I am overtly Pentecostal/Charismatic and ardently desire the move of God in our church. We are contemporary in our music, worship, design et al but we are more like Azusa St than North Pointe.But here is my concern/complaint - the church for the most part has no anointing – so we substitute counseling instead of deliverancePrograms instead of power songs instead of worshipLies instead of truth platitudes instead of the wordGimmicks instead of evangelism comfort instead passionTv and apps instead of prayer another book instead of personal revelationTechnique instead of the anointing,and the latest church growth seminar instead of the Holy Spiritand then we wonder why lives are not changed, families are still being destroyed, marriages are failing, disease is still rampant, and we look like and act like the rest of the world! And we wonder why no one wants what we have – because they already have it and it’s not bringing them any peace or hope!We are building the house of God with cheap materials because the better costs more than we’re willing to pay, so we settle for the good because it is cheaper or free. When we no longer expect the miracle working power of a supernatural God to intervene in our lives or churches; when there no longer is any room for the sovereign move of God's Spirit in our lives or in his church, when we begin to have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, when we're only paying lip service to power of the Spirit, (and good well-meaning churches, pastors and people go thru these phases) we need to recognize this cancer and cut it out!If we grow complacent to the move of God's Spirit, or if we have become resistant to it and not desirous of it, if we have no hunger for the things of God but are merely going along, soon the church will be filled with people just like us, people who know nothing and expect nothing of the power of God. There is a remedy. Paul had to remind Timothy to stir up the Gifts lying dormant in his being. We must raise the level of faith in ourselves and our church. If the bible study is boring and wed. night meetings seem draggy, maybe it's you that's draggy. God never called his ministers to be cheerleaders, Heb. 1:7 he called them to be flames of fire!!! Maybe we need to get pilot lights re-lit! We need to get alone with God and repent of where we are and seek a fresh anointing and God will give it to us! If we’re satisfied with where we are, shame on us! If we have to rely on mouthing someone else's program or revelation, shame on us!Mk. 9:22 says if you can believe, all things are possible. Let dryness and deadness, doubt and deviousness (sin) be done away with today, let them be replaced with faith, holiness and the fire of the anointing of the Holy Ghost! Jesus has anointed you with the Holy Ghost and Power and sent you to preach the word in His power, to heal the sick, to raise the dead, to cause the blind to see, the deaf to hear, Jesus Christ is still the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. O Lord send the power just now to re-anoint, to kick out deadness, to fight the fight of faith, to live in holiness instead of sin, Lord, rekindle the fire of the Holy Ghost to see the New Testament church arise and go forth in the power of the Spirit, once again. Revive us o God!! The anointing is the Holy Spirit of God. It is NOT some new website. We need Him to change our lives, to maintain faith in difficult times and to proclaim Jesus as Saviour, healer, and Lord to a world that is desperate to not just hear pretty words but to see a demonstration of the power of God, now! I have taken those other classes, I am a qualified coach to church planters but we labor in vain if it is WE who are trying to build His house.

We are still here.Check out the messages preached at our recent Camp meeting and you will discover what you are looking for.www.spwc.church Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

I also have concerns about what is happening in the American church. I know of some wonderful exceptions to the overall lack of spiritual power and discernment. Several factors have hindered our churches from walking in what God has for believers. Most can be summed up in conforming to the standards of society to attract the world to church.1. Humility in the ministry.One cannot read the Bible without realizing that God resists the proud and gives grace, His anointing and spiritual power to the humble. My heart grieves when I see the way the anointing is being merchandised by Pentecostal ministers who feel the need to talk about the wonderful things they do for God to get a following and financial support. On the other hand, those who are not Spirit-filled often succumb to intellectual pride and natural business types of excellence in ministry to appeal to the human pride of life so prevalent in our society.2. Quick success and materialism involving big houses, nice cars and other financial priorities.We know the World War II generation built this country by hard work and delayed gratification. The majority of today's society do not want to work hard for years, live below their means and sacrifice for what they can have in 5-20 years years so why should we be surprised when an eternal perspective doesn't motivate the majority of people?3. The lack of prayer and prayer meetings as a way of life in the American church culture. Prayer is an example of doing something that may not give an instant flesh- emotional gratification as compared to many ministry programs, Christian sporting/recreational events, jamming music etc. Therefore, many in leadership are catering to the wants of flesh/emotionally led people rather than modeling and doing prayer with individuals and small groups.4. Quick success and the glory/financial rewards of being a quick big success.Most people who are in business or a profession that hires people will tell you that it is much harder today as compared to the past regarding the ability to find people who will spend years paying the price for promotions and business success. Unfortunately we often see this pattern in the ministry. Young people are shown patterns of success that involve looking up to those who built huge churches and ministries in a short time period.

Brother James and Preacher 777,I really appreciate what you have posted. I have been pastoring now for over 8 years and I have learned some of what's right and what's wrong in pastoring a church. Unfortunately, I believe I may have fallen prey to some of what you have mentioned. Simply put: People want to be loved. People want to be taught. People want to be helped with getting through the messes of life and they want a real pastor who will help them grow in their relationship with God.

I hear this question in a lot of areas. What has happened to my little town? What has happened to sports? What has happened to music? What has happened to.......most anything. Culture has changed almost everything. In most cases, we ain't going back to the way things used to be.

It aint coming back What do you mean by this? Tether ball, the old style camp meetings, camping all week.......... what? I agree these things may not come back but the Spiritual atmosphere of these events will and are coming back.

Eddie plays the trumpet?Cool............... Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

Wayne...I'm saying that the methods that were used aren't coming back. In no way am I implying that spiritual life is not coming back. When I see events like Winterfest and Passion with thousands of kids seeking God, I am confident that the next generation is in good shape spiritually. It's justbthatbthe methods will be different. Andy...I began playing trumpet in the 4th grade and always played in church. I played in high school all 4 years, made all-state, had 2 scholarship offers and was Band Captain. I played a little in college and continue to play in church. One night, I was playing at North Cleveland and Carl Richardson took my trumpet away from me and started playing it. I had no clue he played.

Re: Methodology is NOT sacred

Brother, it's not lost, we have told God we don't need Him.