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The ole timer has seen it happen over an over through the years. Yep, usually works like this.1. A feller is in a denomination/organization.2. In the denomination/organization he is blessed an his church begins to grow.3. All is well fer a bit, then he commences wantin to do his own thing, gits too big fer his own britches (i.e., in his own eyes), so centralized government begins to look bad.4. He ends up goin independent, but,

Just tiny denomination

NOT IN MY CHURCH!Yep I'm a hollerin!You boys know better. Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

Then again, if he stays, the old adage may apply:ManMovementMachineMonument The desires of most denominations is to be a Movement, but over the years they develop into a Machine (all parts are replaceable, as people are) and become a Monument (committed to the status quo above all else). A man who leads his movement out of this progression is trying to keep the Movement phase going. However, he is in danger of recreating what he was trying to avoid in the first place. But what of us who see the morphing our denomination from Movement to Machine to Monument? How do we reverse the process?

There MUST be leadership, order, rules, regulations, etc. if a church is to survive. The proto-Church of God almost was destroyed until they began to create some specific guidelines (which they had been loathe to do, due to their anti-creedal position). But it likely saved the Church of God from just being just some flash in the pan, backwoods movement.A church, independent or denominational, must have order. If you leave the Church of God and go independent, fine...but you will have doctrinal beliefs (often borrowed from the Church of God), and you will have certain systems in place to ensure order and success.

The reason we don't agree too often, Aaron, is cause you don't stop, take time, apply the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, stay inside the pages a the good Book, an then make a decision. Fortunately, on this one, you did.

congregational form of governmen

Every Congregation of Christians must posses government.The question is which kind and how closely does it resemble the New Testament.I am in favor of Congregational governed Churches.I believe it is the NT model.It has worked for us since 1989. Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

So Aaron, you might say that the Kingdom and the Church share the same space (if you will) but manifestation of these two institutions is different. When Paul told Titus to bring order to the churches on Crete by appointing Elders, Paul was, in some degree, ushering in church government, which was both visible (local congregations and leaders) in expression, yet invisible in experience (you must have believers to organize). Mat

SheepDogAndy, while we can definitely see some degree of congregational government in the NT, we also see a centralized government. They are the ones that stepped in to address the issue of whether the Gentiles were to be accepted as believers...and, later, whether Gentiles had to be circumcised, etc.