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Pards, let this old judge set aside the west Texas image and talk to,you. I've seen a lot in my years and I believe it's time to speak my mind. In all too many cases, the state headquarters itself has become too much of a burden for us to support.Wake up! Churches are being cannibalized right and left in our states to pay for a beast that devours but produces nothing. I'm sure there will be those who rise to the defense of state headquarters. But think outside the box. It's used for a meeting place periodically. An office to do some paperwork, and a figurehead of false success.With upkeep, insurance, utilities, payments, and all the trapping that produce a facade of success, it's time to get rid of them.Many pastors and churches have realized that they don't need a state office, general headquarters, etc. to have a covering. They have discovered they can accomplish the same ministry with their own nonprofit organization and well written bylaws. Our churches don't need their interference in ministry. Be very honest. If our state buildings would be sold if they cannot make budget, how much would it change what you and your church do every week?We keep these buildings as a tribute that our states are successes. If a church can't pay its bills, it's sold and where does the money go? They can say all they want about new works, but it really goes to pay bills for a factory that does nothing but devour resources. If the church can't pay its bills, then sell, downsize, and let ministry continue. If the state can't pay its bills, then sell, downsize, and let ministry continue.Either that, or it's time for men and churches to walk away, wish headquarters well, and establish ministries that do more than just feed the beast, grant political favors, and exist to advance to the next position.If we don't have the nerve to do it, then maybe we deserve some time in the bear cage, I tell you what

What part of West Texas are you from?I was born in Quanah and raised (3rd Grade thru Bachelor Degree from Texas Tech University) in Lubbock.Do we know each other?Also, are you attempting to create discord, Your Honor Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8

First, Who is your State Overseer ?Second, Can you site the Churches or properties that have been sold and was the money kept by the State Office and used for salaries or other State Office expenses?The reason that I ask these questions is that the COG passed rules as to how money is to be used from the sale of Church property. If this overseer or any overseer is breaking these rules they should have charges filed against them.I can appreciate venting on this forum, especially when you think that Nobody in Cleveland is paying attention...but venting here rarely produces much traction.

It is all well and good to suggest bringing up charges, but in reality the only person who will suffer is the one bringing the charges. That is reality. It would require a block of pastors pastoring limit churches to get real attention. Friends that ain't gonna happen. It must be seen by the 'influential leaders to put the changes before the GA. Sadly that time will come, but the ship will have taken on too much water. I have no idea how it will play out, but it will be decided by the salaries of those who will not survive. Just look around at K-Mart and Sears. For too long the status quo worked, but the time past when changes should have been made. The upper echelon did not suffer, it was the lower level management and employees. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

I've written, deleted, and rewritten the first line of this reply several times in an attempt to be kind. Here is my edited version:What a FOOLISH post! That is the equivalent of our members saying they don't need us. Or don't need a church. Or we're tired of our tithes going to pay the preacher. Or a church building is only used on Sundays. If you have a problem with your state office, your overseer, or the way things are done, make an appointment with him. If your state office could be sold and it not effect you, then you are out of fellowship already. How can you possibly say that a state office doesn't produce anything? I'm concerned that your bitterness has blinded you, Judge

Exactly what does a state office produce?Not being a smart aleck.Just wondering Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

Bro. Andy Hutchins,I don't count this as a smart aleck question and will answer to the best of my ability. In addition to providing a spiritual covering, the state office also provides fellowship opportunities, training seminars for pastors, conferences and training for youth ministry, children's ministry, conferences for women's ministries, senior adult retreats and fellowships, state meetings, prayer conferences, camp meetings, youth camps, teen talent, junior talent. The state offices also provide ministerial training such as CAMS, MIP, etc. In addition to assisting with pastoral placement and pastoral and accountability, the overseer is available for problem solving, pastoral counseling, etc. When my clerk had some questions regarding payroll, she was able to contact the state treasurer at the state office for assistance. These are a few things off the top of my head

Is this guy serious? I apologize if anything in my post was confusing to you or seemed light hearted or even sarcastic. I was being as straightforward as I know how to be. Yes sir, this guy is serious. I firmly believe that I need my state office and my state office needs me. We're in a covenant relationship

Bro. Andy Hutchins,I don't count this as a smart aleck question and will answer to the best of my ability. In addition to providing a spiritual covering, the state office also provides fellowship opportunities, training seminars for pastors, conferences and training for youth ministry, children's ministry, conferences for women's ministries, senior adult retreats and fellowships, state meetings, prayer conferences, camp meetings, youth camps, teen talent, junior talent. The state offices also provide ministerial training such as CAMS, MIP, etc. In addition to assisting with pastoral placement and pastoral and accountability, the overseer is available for problem solving, pastoral counseling, etc. When my clerk had some questions regarding payroll, she was able to contact the state treasurer at the state office for assistance. These are a few things off the top of my head. This is a great response.When I was on staff as Pastor of Student Ministries at Harvest Temple/Griffin Center Point in Griffin, GA, we had a horrible tragedy where one of my youth (who was mentally/emotionally challenged) was caught inappropriately touching a 5 or 6 year old girl. Other families came forward claiming that their little girls had been inappropriately touched as well. Within hours, every major TV network in Atlanta, GA was on our church property wanting interviews and to break the news. I first hand learned the power of covering and covenant. The COG legal counsel protected the interests of the children, their families, and our local church. They walked hand in hand with all of us. I was free to minister to families including my student who ended up serving 8 years in prison. I am thankful for the Church of God.When HT/GCPC went through a pastoral change in 2010, my last year there, some in our church, including the clerk and some on the church council, tried to make a power play by recruiting an unqualified guy from outside the system to come be the pastor at the church. They were aggressive and ugly to our state overseer, state evangelism director and state yce director. They were ugly to me and those that were credentialed on the staff. Our state overseer (Dr. Mike Baker) assessed the situation, took control of it, and sent us Jerry Chitwood to serve as interim. These moves saved that church and honestly impacted and saved me as a member and minister in the COG.I received amazing training at NGA MIP that I still refer to today. I attended Engage at Mt Paran, C3 Conference at Free Chapel, and was able to participate in programs like Amplify, Shabbach, Raze Hell, Forward, Fall Youth Retreat, Youth Camp, Teen Talent, NYLA, and all of the wonderful things that happened in our local church.As a rural, small-town, lead pastor in Texas, state and international head quarters has provided, mostly free of charge, all of the things that you listed and then so much more. I have been able to earn certifications as a District Overseer through PTS as well as serve as a supervising pastor for MIP going into my 5th year. The MIP graduation in May has become a real growing and learning experience for me now going into a 3rd year.I am now in my second pastorate and I am so appreciative of our movement. We held our annual church finance meeting and state of the church conference this past Sunday. Our church of approximately 300 active members has seen modest growth numerically, to God be all of the glory! I believe that the success of our local church belongs to God and has been blessed by our relationship to the COG and in particular COG World Missions.Our movement isn't perfect but none of them are, including non-denominational, but we are Scripturally sound and there are so many amazing people that I've known or met along the way.I could really go on and on but this is already too long. You certainly don't have to be a part of the COG to serve God or make heaven, but for me, personally, I am so glad that I get to be a part of this family of God Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8

Our state overseer (Dr. Mike Baker) assessed the situation, took control of it, and sent us Jerry Chitwood to serve as interim. These moves saved that church and honestly impacted and saved me as a member and minister in the COG. Did the membership of the church vote on who their next pastor would be?Small world note: Jerry married a lady from our county.Also, when we played in the state softball tournament (back in the eighties)Griffin Temple of Doom wo us out. Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church