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as once saved always saved?I have a man in my church who is a baptist (he tolerates us Pentecostals) and he believes once saved always saved and I ask him about those who claimed salvation, but committed some type of sin. His reply is that they were never saved to begin with. He tells me there is no way for some one to lose their salvation and I tell him he is correct, they don’t lose it, they throw it away.

Here’s a hint, a verse or 20.Did Jesus put away the sin of the world at the cross? Heb. 9:26Did Jesus take away the sin of the world at the cross? John 1:21Did Jesus remove the iniquity of us all? Isa 53:6Did Jesus become sin and die it away? 2 Cor 5:21Col 2:13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him,

I’m happy to consider any scripture you have that seems to support the view that we get forgiveness by asking for forgiveness each time we sin.

Good topic.Great comments Casey.I too enjoy a lot of what Brad brings to the table.Would like to read some more comments from Bro. James________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!

Thanks Casey, I’ve read a few books on grace. I’m sure Andy Stanley’s is good – haven’t read it. Joseph Prince’s are excellent – I’ve read 2. Andrew Farley has written a book called Naked Gospel – it’s good. Paul Ellis has a website called http://www.escapetoreality.orgthat is full of great stuff. 2 of my favorite Podcasters are Lynn Hiles and Bertie Brits.I’d recommend pretty much anyone Mike Brown condemns…seriously.As with most teachers, the guys I listen to will often hold some views I don’t like a lot. Farley isn’t charismatic enough for me. Prince, Dollar and some others still try to give CPR to tithing. But I eat the grapes and spit out the seeds. Look for a message that puts Jesus in the center, not you.Look for a message that focuses on what He did, not on what you do.Look for a message that puts your faith and confidence in His performance, not yours.Look for a message that keeps your eyes on Him, not you.A very telling aspect of the mixed message is that it leaves the work unfinished. It ignores the verb-tenses in the scripture.It leaves you always dying, not dead and having passed out of death into life.It leaves you engaged, not married, not joined to the Lord and bearing fruit.It leaves you going to Heaven, not seated there and hidden in God.It leaves your sins being taken away one apology at a time, not put away at the cross.It leaves you needing and being reconciled to God each time you fail, not reconciled to God at the cross.It leaves you always needing to do something rather than believing something was done.It puts you in an never-quite-finished work of redemption, forgiveness, reconciliation and blessing.Jesus isn’t redeeming, reconciling and putting away sin, He is seated at rest. It is finished. He did it. Our sins have been put away, they aren’t being put away. Heb 9:26; 1 Pet 2:24We have been reconciled, we aren’t being reconciled. Rom. 5:10; 2 Cor 5:18; Eph 2:16; Col 1:22; We have been redeemed, we aren’t being redeemed. Gal 3:13; 1 Pet 1:18What we are doing is receiving or accessing this grace, this life, by believing the truth of all that Jesus did. Rom 5:3; Eph 2:8,9; John 3:16Our message is this Good News. Our message is this word of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:19Those who hear and believe this message, received redemption, forgiveness, reconciliation, blessing and eternal life. Those who don’t are still under the ministry of condemnation, still in darkness, still being called unclean, adulterer, liar, swindler, etc., still in the flesh, still unrighteous and condemned already________________I’m not saved because I’m good. I’m saved because He’s good!My website: http://www.bradfreeman.comMy blog: bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/

but there is some serious room for thought in some of his comments. The following is a compendium of some of my thoughts and Michael Brown’s. I give him attribution but he and I think alike on this issue and I have written about it so I have added his comments into mine. If I had to err, I would err on the side of Grace but if we are not careful, we can lead many astray into OSAS in the process. I have seen this extreme Grace stuff pop up every 15 years or so and this new stuff is nothing new.Food for thought:ONE OF THE foundations of the modern grace message is that the moment we are saved, God forgives all of our sins, meaning past sins, present sins, and future sins. In fact, some hyper-grace teachers claim that God doesn’t even see the sins we commit as believers since He sees us as completely sanctified and holy in His Son.1 To back up this position up, they commonly quote the words of the new covenant prophecy spoken in Jeremiah 31:31–34 and repeated in Hebrews 8:8–12, culminating with these words: “For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more” (ESV, emphasis added), a phrase that is quoted again in Hebrews 10:17—“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” It is true that when Jesus died on the cross, He paid for every sin that you and I and the rest of the human race would ever commit, from Adam’s first sin until the very last sin that will be committed on this planet. But that doesn’t mean God forgives our sins before we commit them. That is not taught anywhere in the Bible. When the Lord says He forgives us and remembers our sins no more, He’s speaking of the sins we have committed at the time He forgives us. The New Testament is totally clear on this. As it is written in 2 Peter 1, the believer who goes backward spiritually rather than forward “is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins” (2 Pet. 1:9, NIV, emphasis added; the English Standard Version reads, “ … having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins”). What sins did God forgive when we asked Him to save and cleanse us? He forgave our past sins, our former sins, the sins we committed before we were born again. As Colossians 2explains, when we put our faith in Jesus and became children of God, He canceled “the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross” (v. 14, ESV). The Bible says “He wiped away the bill of charges against us,” and the New International Version puts it this way: “Having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.” The moment God saved us, He forgave us that debt—some scholars refer to it as an IOU—and then He brought us into a new and better covenant, one in which His laws are written on our hearts, and He remembers our sins no more (Jer. 31:31–34). So when we look to the Lord for salvation, He forgives every sin we have committed up to that point, and He even forgives us for who we are: lost, rebellious sinners. But He does not forgive us for our sins before we commit them. This is clearly stated in many passages, and it makes perfect spiritual sense as well.Part of the new grace message is that we aren’t supposed to strive or work at being spiritual. “Jesus already paid the price,” they say, “and all you have to do is accept it. There’s no way you can add to what He’s done for you, and if you try to do so, you are mixing faith with works or grace with law. All you need to do is let the Lord do His work through you.” Some of this message is wonderfully true, but there are other parts that are not true—actually, there are parts that are missing, and those missing parts can prove fatal. It is true that salvation is a free gift and there’s nothing we can do to earn it. God forgives us and saves us based on His goodness, not our goodness, merit, efforts, hard work, or sacrifice. Jesus paid for our salvation in full on the cross, and we can only receive it as a gift, not as something earned. The New Testament is quite clear on that (Rom. 3:28; 9:31–32; Eph. 2:8–9; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5

You think you can live without sin after being born again. I know that is not the case. Do I lose my salvation if I sin after I accept Christ? No. Do I need to repent over every little thing that I might do that God might call sin? Not necessarily. But if God calls what I do sin and He brings it to my attention it would be appropriate to say please forgive me Father, with your help I will change, wouldn’t it?I do not believe in entire sanctification. It is more than possible to sin after salvation. This is the crux of your problem or argument. Consider this:Rev 3:2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Rev 3:3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev 3:5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

I do not believe we can live without sin. I believe that the believer, even though he sins, does not live in sin. Paul said it this way in the chapter following the one where he said those who have died to sin, no longer live in it:Rom 7:16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now,