From a recent announcement from the WNC State Office:
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Where is your faith man???Do you not believe WNC will close enough churches to keep it going Just say to this church be removed and be cast into the sea of forgetfulness, never to be remembered again…and of course they don’t need the pastors of the churches to make these decisions
In my understanding, a step of faith is where you have no idea where the resources are coming from because you’re stepping out in faith for God to provide________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Maybe the step of faith is that NC would once again grow to the point it was at one time with the planting of new churches.Many folk in NC were against dividing the state years ago. One rational at the time it was the distance that folk from the coast area to travel to camp meeting and summer Bible School. Since Camp Meeting is really no longer a problem, and we have no ‘BIBLE SCHOOL’ per say, maybe combining the East and West again and eliminating a few salaries would pay for three Home Missions positions and really do something?That is off point, but I do wonder about the present ‘funds’ to pay salaries and plants. Three or four good plants could eat up the mil in a short time. We are supposed to have some wise council members and we do have a good Overseer, surely they have thought this all through without submitting an explanation to the many ? points. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Perhaps the TOT should be reduced again if a state thinks it has the money (on faith) to hire a full time director – AFTER – the state ministers voted to combine the two offices (ED and YD) into one?!?!?!? Am I the only one that sees this?This is the same kind of thinking that got us into all these paid state and general office jobs that the rank and file churches voted to eliminate – not propagate________________
One of the other reasons they voted to divide the state back in the 80s was because there was something like 400 ministers on the books and well over 200 churches (though I am not sure of that number.) Point being, there was a lot that needed overseeing and there was no idea that ECBC would be closed down.Now that the state has been divided for 35 years, it seems doubtful to me that they would reunite them, especially when they are both considered strong states in the COG.It is my understanding that they have already had to close many churches in WNC. It really doesn’t make sense that they would hire someone with the idea of closing churches if they need more $ for his support________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
It also doesn’t make sense to not allow pastors of the state to vote on this issue. Seems the pastors voted to do away with a position and it was put back in via the backdoor. There vote would have even more relevance given that closed churches would be the source of income for the new position.Understand, I don’t bemoan the position or the need. I believe there probably is a need for it, but the method and means should be called into question. Seriously, everything in this situation could be done with the utmost of care and uprightness, but why start down this road?
Just a few questions:The article states: This was a step of faith on the part of the state overseer, state council and Matt and his family. Although the tithe fund receipts still cannot support the cost of a full-time position, the council voted to designate the receipts from the sale of disbanded churches up to $1,000,000 for evangelism in WNC.-So, should pastors in WNC be concerned that, when funds run out to pay the USA Mission Director, their church will be next on the auction block?-Who determines which churches are closed and sold to fund this salary?-Have there already been receipts of $1 million from sold churches? If not, who’s next to bring us to that number?-Did the ministers of WNC not vote a few years ago to have one man fill both roles of YD and ED? Does their preference no longer count? Does the State Council have the authority to override the voice of the state ministers?Finally, it is my understanding that ALL monies from the sale of church properties is to be used for church planting. This is in accordance with General Assembly Minutes. I think it is a tremendous stretch to call a paying an ED salary church planting. It seems a little unusual to fund a position from the sale of disbanded churches. As mentioned, I thought we passed a measure at the GA, that required those funds to be used for church planting________________
This is one of the things that can be explained as: The salary is for a man who will be in charge of ‘Planting churches. I am assuming the council felt that this was in keeping with the GA ruling or guidelines.It could also be a good spin. BUT I am hoping there is a planned path for the new position. WAYS to plant that works.Some of our most successful churches were founded by a ‘called’ minister and the spouse, who worked, supported themselves and won enough people to ‘start’ a church, normally in their home.Things change, life goes on and that is in the rear view mirror. Today we are a forward looking people and things are different. Maybe(?) this will be the best way, I pray that we actually do plant in WNC, we have definitely closed a few. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
This is one of the things that can be explained as: The salary is for a man who will be in charge of ‘Planting churches. I am assuming the council felt that this was in keeping with the GA ruling or guidelines.It could also be a good spin. BUT I am hoping there is a planned path for the new position. WAYS to plant that works.Some of our most successful churches were founded by a ‘called’ minister and the spouse, who worked, supported themselves and won enough people to ‘start’ a church, normally in their home.Things change, life goes on and that is in the rear view mirror. Today we are a forward looking people and things are different. Maybe(?) this will be the best way, I pray that we actually do plant in WNC, we have definitely closed a few. I need to go back and check the Minutes to see exactly how it was worded. I was thinking the measure said the funds were to be used directly for planting churches________________
I did not get the impression that the salary would be coming from the ‘closing’ of churches. But it could be taken that way.Note on closing churches. I am a believer in the older small churches. Ones that some say, and actually are dying. But since those members have paid for that church and can still keep the utilities and maintenance up to date, I think the church should remain open, not matter the value of the property. As long as the core is paying their way, they need a church to attend until they die without being told you need to drive a few extra miles to attend xyz church.I know there are other opinions, but at least that is mine. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Thinking a little more, , most admins see throwing money at a problem solves it. In rare cases that is true! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
In my opinion – The WNC AB has a plan to finance this project. In my opinion – This is not an Act of Faith or an Act of Stupidity. In my opinion – There is not 1 State Office that takes a Step of Faith.In my opinion – Every State Office Leadership Team (The AB or State Council) Has a PLAN and does not operate without a PLAN and they VOTE on a PLAN.
Where is your faith man???Do you not believe WNC will close enough churches to keep it going Just say to this church be removed and be cast into the sea of forgetfulness, never to be remembered again…and of course they don’t need the pastors of the churches to make these decisions
In my understanding, a step of faith is where you have no idea where the resources are coming from because you’re stepping out in faith for God to provide________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
Thank you for that! Much needed comic relief on a Monday
Maybe the step of faith is that NC would once again grow to the point it was at one time with the planting of new churches.Many folk in NC were against dividing the state years ago. One rational at the time it was the distance that folk from the coast area to travel to camp meeting and summer Bible School. Since Camp Meeting is really no longer a problem, and we have no ‘BIBLE SCHOOL’ per say, maybe combining the East and West again and eliminating a few salaries would pay for three Home Missions positions and really do something?That is off point, but I do wonder about the present ‘funds’ to pay salaries and plants. Three or four good plants could eat up the mil in a short time. We are supposed to have some wise council members and we do have a good Overseer, surely they have thought this all through without submitting an explanation to the many ? points. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Perhaps the TOT should be reduced again if a state thinks it has the money (on faith) to hire a full time director – AFTER – the state ministers voted to combine the two offices (ED and YD) into one?!?!?!? Am I the only one that sees this?This is the same kind of thinking that got us into all these paid state and general office jobs that the rank and file churches voted to eliminate – not propagate________________
One of the other reasons they voted to divide the state back in the 80s was because there was something like 400 ministers on the books and well over 200 churches (though I am not sure of that number.) Point being, there was a lot that needed overseeing and there was no idea that ECBC would be closed down.Now that the state has been divided for 35 years, it seems doubtful to me that they would reunite them, especially when they are both considered strong states in the COG.It is my understanding that they have already had to close many churches in WNC. It really doesn’t make sense that they would hire someone with the idea of closing churches if they need more $ for his support________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
It also doesn’t make sense to not allow pastors of the state to vote on this issue. Seems the pastors voted to do away with a position and it was put back in via the backdoor. There vote would have even more relevance given that closed churches would be the source of income for the new position.Understand, I don’t bemoan the position or the need. I believe there probably is a need for it, but the method and means should be called into question. Seriously, everything in this situation could be done with the utmost of care and uprightness, but why start down this road?
Just a few questions:The article states: This was a step of faith on the part of the state overseer, state council and Matt and his family. Although the tithe fund receipts still cannot support the cost of a full-time position, the council voted to designate the receipts from the sale of disbanded churches up to $1,000,000 for evangelism in WNC.-So, should pastors in WNC be concerned that, when funds run out to pay the USA Mission Director, their church will be next on the auction block?-Who determines which churches are closed and sold to fund this salary?-Have there already been receipts of $1 million from sold churches? If not, who’s next to bring us to that number?-Did the ministers of WNC not vote a few years ago to have one man fill both roles of YD and ED? Does their preference no longer count? Does the State Council have the authority to override the voice of the state ministers?Finally, it is my understanding that ALL monies from the sale of church properties is to be used for church planting. This is in accordance with General Assembly Minutes. I think it is a tremendous stretch to call a paying an ED salary church planting. It seems a little unusual to fund a position from the sale of disbanded churches. As mentioned, I thought we passed a measure at the GA, that required those funds to be used for church planting________________
This is one of the things that can be explained as: The salary is for a man who will be in charge of ‘Planting churches. I am assuming the council felt that this was in keeping with the GA ruling or guidelines.It could also be a good spin. BUT I am hoping there is a planned path for the new position. WAYS to plant that works.Some of our most successful churches were founded by a ‘called’ minister and the spouse, who worked, supported themselves and won enough people to ‘start’ a church, normally in their home.Things change, life goes on and that is in the rear view mirror. Today we are a forward looking people and things are different. Maybe(?) this will be the best way, I pray that we actually do plant in WNC, we have definitely closed a few. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
This is one of the things that can be explained as: The salary is for a man who will be in charge of ‘Planting churches. I am assuming the council felt that this was in keeping with the GA ruling or guidelines.It could also be a good spin. BUT I am hoping there is a planned path for the new position. WAYS to plant that works.Some of our most successful churches were founded by a ‘called’ minister and the spouse, who worked, supported themselves and won enough people to ‘start’ a church, normally in their home.Things change, life goes on and that is in the rear view mirror. Today we are a forward looking people and things are different. Maybe(?) this will be the best way, I pray that we actually do plant in WNC, we have definitely closed a few. I need to go back and check the Minutes to see exactly how it was worded. I was thinking the measure said the funds were to be used directly for planting churches________________
I did not get the impression that the salary would be coming from the ‘closing’ of churches. But it could be taken that way.Note on closing churches. I am a believer in the older small churches. Ones that some say, and actually are dying. But since those members have paid for that church and can still keep the utilities and maintenance up to date, I think the church should remain open, not matter the value of the property. As long as the core is paying their way, they need a church to attend until they die without being told you need to drive a few extra miles to attend xyz church.I know there are other opinions, but at least that is mine. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I wondered the same thing________________www.roysteravenue.com
You guys can protest if you want to, but the way I see this worded it will fall on deaf ears. I guess I would like to know
You guys can protest if you want to, but the way I see this worded it will fall on deaf ears. I guess I would like to know
As a rule I agree, I just hope we are an exception! Time will certainly tell. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Thinking a little more, , most admins see throwing money at a problem solves it. In rare cases that is true! ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
In my opinion – The WNC AB has a plan to finance this project. In my opinion – This is not an Act of Faith or an Act of Stupidity. In my opinion – There is not 1 State Office that takes a Step of Faith.In my opinion – Every State Office Leadership Team (The AB or State Council) Has a PLAN and does not operate without a PLAN and they VOTE on a PLAN.
Centralized government, you gotta love it. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church