Give me your thoughts on Melchizedek. He clearly is someone special (apparently even more special than Abraham).
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Give me your thoughts on Melchizedek. He clearly is someone special (apparently even more special than Abraham).
Quick thoughts in summary: Not a Christophany. They came and went. This man held down two jobs: king and priest. Jesus did not become a man until the incarnation. He is a type of Christ – not Christ. Joseph is a type of Christ. Moses is a type of Christ. David is a type of Christ. Melchizedek is also a type of Christ. He is “like†the Son of God – but not the Son of God. Hebrews shows the imperfection of the Levitical priesthood. Since Levi is a descendent of Abraham, and Abraham shows deference to Melchizedek- clearly Melchizedek was of greater stature than Abram. In Psalm 110
Da Sheik…
Please know that while, yes, I do think Melchizedek is a theophany, I am not immune to an reasonable argument to the contrary.I don’t know who wrote Hebrews. I tend to think it was Paul. But in that book it says the following in Hebrews 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.This implies (to me) that there were some much deeper things to spoken of about Melchizedek…but the readers were not yet up to it.Well, I cannot imagine what might so difficult to accept…unless it is a theophany, can you?Now, I don’t make a doctrine out of this; it’s just my own take on the matter. But there were many things that we have not record of the apostles preaching–e.g., the trinity; etc. Yes, we may extrapolate from them to reach certain beliefs, but they did not teach the trinity in any way that was clearly about THAT.As for Hebrews being the only book…are you perhaps suggesting it is incorrect? not canonical? etc.? I’m not going to take you to task if you do, of course, but we tend to find the notion of saved by grace mainly (only?) in Paul’s epistles, even if it is not contradicted elsewhere. We never read of the third heaven anywhere but in Paul’s writings.
I like this, I have never considered most of this. Very interesting to the neophyte! Thanks.I ain’t smart enough to comment on the actual subject, but to me it is interesting reading. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
I brought up the book of Hebrews because that book of the NT deals with a very specific issue. The writer was warning the believers not to go back into dead works (aka Judaism). They were being tempted to embrace the Levitical priesthood and leave Jesus Christ. The mention of Melchizedek is used to show that there was a priesthood superior to the Aaronic priesthood and that Psalm 110shows that this priestly order would once again come into play. To be a priest under the law of Moses you had to have the pedigree. You had to produce the genealogy proving you were a descendent of Aaron. However, in a book filled with genealogies (Genesis) Melchizideks’s genealogy is omitted. This omission was not because he was a divine being, but to show that he was a priest by divine decree, not by virtue of ancestry! Melchizedek was an earthly priest and king. Jesus is the heavenly priest. When David prophesies in Psalm 110:he says that the LORD (Jesus) would be made an high priest
I brought up the book of Hebrews because that book of the NT deals with a very specific issue. The writer was warning the believers not to go back into dead works (aka Judaism). They were being tempted to embrace the Levitical priesthood and leave Jesus Christ. The mention of Melchizedek is used to show that there was a priesthood superior to the Aaronic priesthood and that Psalm 110shows that this priestly order would once again come into play. To be a priest under the law of Moses you had to have the pedigree. You had to produce the genealogy proving you were a descendent of Aaron. However, in a book filled with genealogies (Genesis) Melchizideks’s genealogy is omitted. This omission was not because he was a divine being, but to show that he was a priest by divine decree, not by virtue of ancestry! Melchizedek was an earthly priest and king. Jesus is the heavenly priest. When David prophesies in Psalm 110:he says that the LORD (Jesus) would be made an high priest
I don’t know of one respectable Messianic Jew who holds to this interpretation. Not one. Melchizedek lived and died. Aaron and his descendants took over the priesthood for a season. Then Jesus died, rose again, and ascended. Now He has a priesthood after the same order of Melchizedek. Christ abides a priest forever. Not Melchizedek. Further, the book of Hebrews goes to great lengths to describe how Christ is better. Better than the old order of things, which has now become obsolete with the sacrifice of Christ. There’s no way the writer of Hebrews would venerate Melchizedek or any other Old Testament figure to the detriment of exalting Christ.
If you really want to do a deep dive on this, I recommend Naked Bible Podcast 166–168, 170 — Melchizedek. Dr. Michael Heiser does an in-depth study on Melchizedek, a mysterious figure that’s only mentioned in three books of the Bible—so who was Melchizedek?________________
I don’t know of one respectable Messianic Jew who holds to this interpretation. Not one. Melchizedek lived and died. Aaron and his descendants took over the priesthood for a season. Then Jesus died, rose again, and ascended. Now He has a priesthood after the same order of Melchizedek. Christ abides a priest forever. Not Melchizedek. I put almost zero stock in anything Messianic Jews say about theology. Mainly because, in my experience, most of them have a tendency to try to hold that certain Jewish practices should be practiced by Gentile Christians, as well. That’s not proof that they are wrong, but I have very little confidence in their take on matters.Da Sheik, it is Melchizedek whom the Bible says abideth a priest forever. Hebrews 7:3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Something else to consider using logic. What is it that makes Jesus Christ such a perfect High Priest? Was it not the Incarnation itself? He fully entered into our human experience so that He could sympathize perfectly with us as humans? And what about His ultimate sacrifice? Those things had yet to take place in the days of the patriarchs.
The Scriptures (inspired by the Holy Spirit) treat Jesus and Melchizedek as separate entities in Psalm 110and the book of Hebrews. If the writer of Hebrews considered Jesus as Melchizedek he would have said so. Instead, he compares the two as separate entities. Similar but distinct. Such is the nature of typology. Theophanies appeared and then disappeared such as Gen 18and the “4th man in the fireâ€. Melchizedek served as king and priest in Salem. Jesus did not serve a term as an earthly high priest prior to the Incarnation. I will make one last appeal from Scripture to show the chronology. If you refuse to accept, we shall agree to disagree and remain friends (just don’t let me hear of you baptizing folks in the name of Melchizedek!). Heb 7:26-28KJV – 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.Notice that last verse and the phrase “since the lawâ€? The oath that appointed the Son as High Priest came after the law (and certainly after Melchizedek). And just to correct a factual error you made earlier, it was indeed a tenth of the spoils of the battle of the kings (and not a tithe of all Abraham owned) that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek: Heb 7:4
Thank you, my friend. I have appreciated the discussion. As for Hebrews 7:4, I have two responses: 1. I don’t know how to reconcile that with the clear statement of scripture that Abram refused to accept any spoil.2. The Greek word for spoils that is used in Hebrews 7:4appears only once in the Bible. While spoils can be the definition, it shows that the primary and secondary are firstfruits and (from the) top of the heap.Not saying your point is wrong, but I’m also not saying mine is either (SMILE).As for the rest, I agree we aren’t going to change each others’ minds, but you have given me some good things to consider, and I thank you for that. If it does eventually change my mind, you’ll know you deserve some (or all) of the credit.UPDATE:As I thought on this, it came to me that if the Son of God appeared in human form as Melchizedek…establishing some sort of priesthood, etc….then, when that theophany was done, it would not make Melchizedek a separate entity from Jesus/the Son of God to say that Jesus was a priest after the order of Melchizedek.For instance, let’s say that I play a role in a movie. And in that movie I do certain things. Well, after the movie is finished, if someone said You are like that guy in the movie, that doesn’t mean we are two separate entities (at least not two separate entities–but rather two different roles).Further, lets say that in the movie I had on a costume that made me appear very different. For someone to later say that I am like that person in the movie because we have certain characteristics that are similar, that doesn’t mean we are separate entities.Likewise, when Jesus was in the form of Melchizedek (work with me here), He set a certain tone and standard. And now that He is not longer in that form, it would not be wrong to say You are like Melchizedek. What you established under the guise of Melchizedek, you are just like that.
Same here Bro!
I have enjoyed this discussion as much as any here on ACTS. There is clearly no winners here but some great Biblical points that us heophytes cn chew on. I hope you guys stay safe and enjoy life. God is good. This has been a sort of blessing just reading the depth in which you guys see scripture. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/