Look, what I’m getting ready to tell you may or may not be true…. But let’s suppose that when I was working on my degree, I realized that there were about a good number of credit-hours that I could CLEP (i.e., just take the test and, if I passed, pay the full price for the course and get credit). So, in roughly half the time that it took others, a B.A. could be obtained.Is that wrong? And if not, would it be wrong if a person CLEPed ALL their college courses to get a degree (assuming a college would allow that)?What if I could CLEP my way to a Master’s Degree and even almost to a Ph.D? If the university allows it, is it acceptable? And if they only permit CLEP credits for a portion of the needed credit-hours, do I have a right to question why they will accept only so many?In fact, let’s put it in a way that might raise OTCP from the dead (although I think most of us know that he was twice dead, plucked up by the roots!!!): If a person had the ability to take and pass all of the exams that are needed to pass the courses to a Ph.D, then perhaps even wrote a disseration for the rest of it (or perhaps had life experience that demonstrated all the qualities that a disseration would have provided–research, adding to the body of knowledge, etc.), would it be wrong to accept a Ph.D? If not, then why would it be wrong for a university, recognizing some the requisite knowledge in someone, as well as the fact that that person had contributed significantly to the research and knowledge in a field, to just award them with a Ph.D? I mean, if you could, at least in theory, CLEP your way to a B.A., the CLEP process demonstrating one’s abilities, why not to a Masters? Or a Ph.D?It’s not like a Ph.D is utterly unlike any undergraduate degree. It’s very similar–take courses, read, research, write a paper (just on a larger scale). So, if it would not be wrong to CLEP to a Ph.D–especially if an accredited university accepted such–then are we admitting that the university is admitting that if you know this much, then you are deemed worthy of the credit-hours/degree?And if so, then if a university, taking someone’s work into account, decided to aware them a Ph.D because of that, would it NOT be Ph.D?And is it not possible that, to a significant degree, that is kind of what an honorary degree is about? Yes, we all know that it’s not a real Ph.D., even if the recipient knows more than any real Ph.D., but most honorary degrees are not awarded at random. They go to people who truly have done great things in a field. If the pianist Paderewski was given an honorary degree in music, he would have richly deserved it, having almost certainly contributed more to the field than an Ph.D. If they gave him a Ph.D for it (honorary or not), it would have been richly deserved.
QW…
Indeed. I’m speaking hypothetically. But if they allow you to CLEP some courses, one has to wonder just why you can’t CLEP them all IF YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO DO SO.At the same time, if a university allows ANY courses to be CLEPed, aren’t they admitting that if you have the requisite knowledge, you ought to be permitted those credit-hours? If it’s the case that you can attain a degree by CLEPing some of the courses, then why can an honorary degree not be awarded to someone for those same reasons…and the recipient using Dr.without reproach?
Nope. Not at all. Credit for the class is awarded in response to the student taking a lengthy test demonstrating they have already mastered the knowledge taught in the class. No one is awarded legitimate credits for notability in their field.CLEP is also only an option for early undergraduate classes.
This, my friends, is the reason Acts should always exist.The humor.The absurdity.Aaron should maybe work on CLEPing Basket Weaving 101 or Art Appreciation 102 first. I don’t think he would get those credits either.________________
They are generally core courses (Composition, Humanities, Math). This is a good option for students who had gifted aptitudes or skills in these areas but had no chance to take college level courses during high school. That way they can focus quicker on major subjects. These tests are extremely difficult and should not be discounted. There are educators who would have great difficulty passing a CLEP test in many areas due to the fact that there is no daily reinforcement to the materials. These tests result in accredited credits being given in fully accredited institutions. They are not the same as the spurious credit being given for life experience in order to gain a gimmick easy way out degree to hang on your wall and give yourself positive strokes with the title Doctor.I think I just heard OTCP shouting from the amen corner. ________________
About the precedent thing….The precedent is this: A university is awarding someone credits based on evidence (passing the test) that they already have the requisite knowledge in those areas. If we extend that (and, in truth, I’m not sure there is a really good reason that a university couldn’t, in fact, make it so that if a person could indeed pass all of the exams for a degree, a degree was conferred), we can then make the justified leap to a university, aware of someone’s significant knowledge and advancement of a particular field, might deem that that person has all the requisite knowledge for a degree and confer the degree on them.Now, you and I know that not all honorary degrees are given just to those who truly tower over a field. They are sometimes given for political reasons, or what have you. But some ARE given to people who, even without the formal degree, stand fully equal, perhaps superior, to anyone in the field.For instance, Fermat, the mathematician, was only informally a mathematician. He did not have a doctorate in math, etc., and yet his last theorem has likely sparked more advancement in the field of math than any other theory.If he had been awarded an honorary degree in math, he not only would have richly deserved it, but would be fully equal to it.If a university can accept SOME courses being CLEPed (i.e., demonstration of ability allows one to gain credits toward a degree without actually taking the course), then the difference in this and actually awarding someone a degree due to their demonstrated expertise in a field is only a matter of extending the CLEP-thing further.Now, if a university did not accept CLEP at all, that is logically consistent with an honorary degree meaning little more than appreciation. But if a university DOES accept CLEP courses (and to my knowledge, all do), then we can ask the following questions:1) Why do you only permit CLEPing for X number of credits or only in certain courses? 2) If a person has the ability to CLEP even those courses that a university does not permit to be CLEPed, why does the university deem it acceptable to CLEP some courses where one knows the material, but not all other courses for which one has sufficient ability?
CLEP is a great way to go …
CLEP is a great to go for those core credits required for undergrad degrees. I received several credits at Christopher Newport University (which is part of the Virginia university system) and it was a great experience. In my case it was pay your money, take the test(s) and if you pass you got the credits. No three months of classwork, plus driving to and from and still paying to get the same credits.For the core credits I’m a think CLEP and community college are the way to go as far as cost and time are concerned. I know a young lady who is a lawyer who was able to CLEP her way through much of her undergrad work and was accepted into Law School without a undergrad degree (BA/BS).I feel the say way about the GED. If I had known how easy it was I would have left high school behind long before I did (joined the Corps when I turned 18 back when you did not have to have be a High School grad).
So I believe Aaron is arguing for all recipients of honorary degrees to take final exam courses for all 130 credits for a bachelors degree – and if they pass them all – confer the honorary degree…and feel free to use the initials B.S. after their name.Aaron Scott B.S.Sounds about right. ________________
It’s a B.S., but Piled Higher and Deeper.But to your point…. No. I am saying that IF a university can arbitrarily deem it completely suitable to give someone credit-hours for what amounts to life experience (i.e., knowledge gained outside of formal studies), then a university could take even bigger steps….First, the university could deem it acceptable to allow a person to CLEP every class they are capable of CLEPing, giving them the associated credit-hours.Further, a university could say, Why are we requiring the person to pass a formal CLEP test when there are other valid ways of appraising a person’s ability/authority in a field? For instance, if someone has done noted work in a field, and is an established authority, why wouldn’t such ‘non-formal’ work reveal to us as much or more than a CLEP test? And if we do believe that it reveals as much to us as a swatch of CLEP tests would reveal about a person, then why are we insisting on a formal academic path, etc., to confer a suitable title on such a person?Very simply, if a university will accept SOME credits via CLEP, deeming that a fully suitable alternate pathway to credits, then, unless there is money involved somewhere (and you can be sure that it is), there is no good reason to accept a CLEP for only some courses, but not for others. I mean, either the classroom experience is essential to one’s education or it is not–and the acceptance of any CLEP score seems to indicate that the classroom is not deemed essential.Now, for the next step….If a university concedes that, yes, a person should be permitted to CLEP their way to a degree (or at least CLEP their way virtually all the way to a degree), then a logical follow-up question would be Is CLEP the only way to demonstrate ability?And if the university admits to the fact that there are likely multiple alternative pathways to authority in a field, with CLEP being but one of them, then we find out what those other alternate pathways are. Jane Goodall, the primatologist, was permitted by Cambridge to study for (and achieve) a Ph.D…WITHOUT ANY UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE. That lets us know that there was something besides formal classroom studies (and without CLEP either) that was considered.
If you’re going to do something like this, then look at your state schools. I used to work for Shepherd University in WV. They have a legit program called a Regent’s Bachelor’s of Arts. It’ll take all your random undergrad classes, your life experience, and see how much credit you have. They’ll fill in the blanks with classes that they work out with you, depending on your goals and needs. You end up with a degree in everything and nothing at all… But it’s a good way to get your Bachelor’s done, and hopefully move on to a Master’s degree, and to do it the right way________________———My Facebook http://www.facebook.com/theB3
First, Brandon, thanks for that info on Shepherd University. I don’t think I had heard of it before.I wouldn’t doubt that if a university knew that they would get paid, say, DOUBLE what they would receive for a student taking regular courses (i.e., non-CLEP, etc.), you would see a WHOLE LOT MORE courses open up to the CLEP process, etc.
Re: Is it acceptable to CLEP courses in college?
What does ‘CLEP stand for?For undergraduate degrees, most universities in the US want you to earn a certain number of credits there, usually the last two years worth. You can’t just ‘CLEP’ (whatever that means) the credit hours. Many universities accept AP courses from highschoolers for some kind of credits or exemptions. I think I exempted out of two classes that way. I went to three flagship state universities. For my PhD, I just theoretically needed to take five classes, a qualifying exam, comprehensive exam, propose, write, and defend a dissertation and defend to graduate and get all the forms signed. There was just one class per semester for two years I had to take. The other class would be at least one Ph.D. independent study with the dissertation chair. I had to be taking that class when I defended.That sounds easy. While the technical requirements were really few, to actually graduate, I had to take more classes. I had to have three professors give me questions for the qualifier and three for the comp. Professors could say, ‘no.’ And if you asked a professor for a question and you hadn’t even taken his or her seminar, that was asking for trouble, so you had to take these professor’s seminar’s, too. And it was expected of you to attend all the academic presentations and take courses, which you needed to build relationships with those who could be on your committee. Still, you could take a professor’s class and he or she could be too busy to be on your committee. I had a class with one Japanese professor who turned me down. I think he was offended that I went with another faculty member to be my chair.Universities with high standards don’t give out PhDs easily without putting you through a rigorous process. If there was some kind of ‘Good Will Hunting’ guy who knew all the stuff, maybe he could take short-cuts. Usually it takes more than four years to get through a PhD________________
Technically, you probably don’t have to have an undergraduate degree to go to law school. I am not sure about this, but if they accept you, you may be able to get in without the degree. But I am not sure if the accrediting agency would like that, especially if it happened a lot. And if you get accepted to college in 11th grade, you could probably fail or drop out the 12th grade year and still go to college. They accepted you after all. But a computerized job application may reject you if you tick no to having a high school diploma down the road when you apply for a job________________
I have an ‘earned’ HS and college level GED . Not sure the college level GED still exists. but to the OP. I have no problem believing if a college or university tests on the level of the grad, it should be accepted.I know, I know for us non grads in anything to make that judgement is silly we just don’t know the whole story. And of course one thinking that might just be right.But I have had folks working for me with 4 yr degrees that could not write a sensible pass down log.But I DO NOT consider the CLEP’ing even close to the degree mills. ________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Re: CLEP =
Thanks FG, it was not referred to as CLEP as I recall when I took them, I am sure, BUT mnemonics weren’t used as much in the 50’s. If I remember right it was 5 days, 4 specific subjects and 1 general knowledge. I did well on 3 just barely made it on 2________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/