One of the early indications that a movement is in plateau or in decline is a shift to an inward focus. We use the cliche of “maintenance mode “. I have no animosity towards any local, state, or international official. But I’m convinced if the state office(s) closed today, there would be very little negative net impact on the COG. In my mind, the state office and staff should be a tremendous
I think you hit the nail on the head. We really like to think our structure is almost in the Bible. But in fact for many years we have been a corporation. A poorly run corp to be sure. I had a friend in COG ADmin for years. He confided in me When I retire I will spend my life visiting small churches just to let them know that someone who has been ‘up the ladder’ does care for the small churches. He remembered like many who serve as a small church as pastor, your members never saw an ‘official’ much less shook hands and hugged necks. Sadly he passed away months into retirement.We are a corporation whether we like it or not. People paid to master the ‘leading jobs’ are supposed to see and learn new ways to hold people. the upper echelon is supposed to have their finger on the pulse of the church and supply innovative ideas, or you are like the once mighty Sears Roebuck on your way out! so far it doesn’t look like the new staff can save her________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
So….no campmeeting, no Youth Camps, no special events all year, no one to handle the churches that need financial support, no one to handle churches that are fighting their pastors or churches/pastors that need a transition. Some of that could probably be handled by a pastor, but I think there is value in having an AB and his team.If a person isn’t called to do it or doesn’t have a passion for it, they should have enough integrity to go back to pastoring or get another job________________More of Him…less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Its interesting to me that the Church of God points to Spurling and the 1886 Christian Union congregation as its genesis. The beginnings were much more a congregational focus with a rejection of the denominational system. Yes, Restorationist in the since of mirroring the Early/Apostolic Church. The message of Church Government as in a hierarchical since seems to be more a Tomlinson message. So the Church of God embraces the illusion of the Spruling’s Christian Union, while being Tomlinson’s vision of the Church of God with hierarchical structure (on steroids). That is an interesting dichotomy of self-image. It produces an empty message of the local church being the most important expression of the Church of God, that is preached my those who are totally embedded and committed to the hierarchical structure.
The AG does these things – and yet their leaders also pastor churches at the same time________________
You are in error NBFAG does not have Campmeeting. They do have district councils and General Council but they are nothing like our events in the COG.
Really??? A/G campmeetings are district gatherings. They are much like our regional campmeetings in the cog states that have sold there campgrounds. In my humble opinion I think holding regional campmeetings in local church’s allow smaller churches to see what the larger churches are doing. It models what is working in an area instead of showing off a campground and what that state overseer thinks the Excutive council wants to see. I also felt there was a more fellowship focus because of the inclusion of local church membership in the events. Due to the fact it was in a local church. Yes there are full time people in the A/G but it is more of a partnership then a dictatorship. I use to buy the whole cog oversight thing until there were grievous issues I have seen sidestep because of relationship. . Yes this is more accurate. They don’t call it campmeeting, bit it is the same type gathering…just without all the expense. Only pastors can attend campmeetings, as they are no longer held on weekends. District gatherings allow most to attend________________
The main calendar events each year are camp meetings, youth camps, and maybe a few seminars. It does not require a fully funded state office staff to plan those things. I’m not trying to brag, but our church has organized events much larger than the average COG camp meeting in far less time and with the majority of the work done by volunteers. I’m not Chicken Little and I don’t prophesy that the sky is falling. But the current model the COG is following is not sustainable. The great myth that Cleveland wants you to believe is that if the structures were decentralized then local and world missions would crumble.
I hate to differ with you but with all due respect you’re response is tainted somewhat.I was A/G in the Southern Calif. District for about 15 years. We had District Council in Anaheim, CA every year & they strongly reflected any CoG Camp Meeting we ever had & in fact almost exactly the way we have camp meeting nowadays here in Calif. I came back to the CoG to pastor a church & the two systems are almost exactly the same. We had good ole fashion, Holy Ghost gully washers at DC when I was with the A/G & enjoyed the leadership of Sup. Ray Rachels very much. I went to General Council last year as a visitor & it was awesome! Haven’t been blessed in such a powerful way in years. Now most of the Presbyters & some Exec. Presbyters were also pastors & you’re right, they have a tendency to stay in those elected/appointed positions long term. The youth director was always swamped with numerous camps (even more so now) all Summer. In addition there were multiple youth events all throughout the year. In fact today our local church often times still supports the A/G youth events because the quality of the event, price & the locations are often times better. ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I am enjoying your comments and inputs. I am very ignorant as to the AG. I remember as a young (ignorant) COG pastor I visited the AG HQ. I was given a tour and over all view, but it was too much to take in at the time.I also was seeing our HQ in Cleveland (conservative and relatively small) the AG was opulent and expensively impressive. (in my mind wasteful!!!!). I left proud my ‘Denomination’ was more financially conservative. Then a few years ago I was given a guided tour,even met the General. WOW, Unless the AG has done some remodeling, we are more showy than they!I walked out, I love the COG, it has been my whole life PK, member, preacher, pastor now member. My mindset, is no longer the mindset of the church leadership. Somehow I do not agree blindly. When I see our denomination dying in the smaller churches I know something needs to be done. I do not know what, but our leadership is headed the way of Kmart, Grants and Roses.But when assigned to the super jobs, you are supposed to be forward looking, someone isn’t!________________Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Great points cojack.. one thing to keep in mind the AG is more than 9 TIMES the size of the COG. Their structures are going to be much bigger. A/G has 68,504,338 members 367,287 churches in 239 countries (according to A/G Vital Stats agwm.com/assets/agwmvitalstats.pdf
One important point to keep in mind with regard to the size difference between the AG and the CoG is, the AG started off hundreds of times larger than the CoG started off. The CoG started as one tiny congregation in the Appalachian backwoods, while the AG began as a fellowship of several hundred churches and ministers representing large regional swaths of the USA. Also, the CoG has been far more successful, per missionary, with far less missionaries than the AG has. So, while we could all do better, I don’t think the CoG has any reason to feel somehow ashamed of the size of the denomination compared to the AG.
As someone who knows Pentecostal and charismatic history better than most. There is a reason the A/G is more than 9 times the size of the COG. The COG’s biggest Hurdle is its governmental structure. You want to say the COG started small. I will give you that but the COG started in 1886 where the A/G denomination as we know it formed in 1914 that gave the COG a 28 yr head start we should be huge. The biggest issue the COG has faced and this has been going on since Tomlinson is centralized government. The A/G was free to Grow and Partner with other churches. Where on the other hand the COG definition of partnership and coming in was total surrender of your local church polity. The COG could only move as fast as its government could keep up.Also I don’t buy the line the COG was Pentecostal first. Some Tote that line to say that the COG was somewhat spiritually superior. 1886 may have been when the COG started, but it wasn’t until G. B. Cashewell preached at North Cleveland in 1908 after Azusa Street when A.J. Tomlinson recieved the baptism did we become a truly Pentecostal experience focused movement. Before that point we were holiness people. There may have been small Holy Ghost breakouts like the Shearer school house revival but it was not widely embraced until that moment. Some education on Cashwellen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_B._Cashwell
We have been privileged to live without a state overseer or any state or general headquarters since 1989.We enjoy the best Youth Camp.The best camp meetings.The best preachers, C/G, A/G and independent.Foreign missions.Ministerial education (School of Christ).We have lost nothing.We have gained everything. ________________Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church
I am very familiar with Pentecostal history, and how AJT receiving the baptism in the Spirit under Cashwell’s ministry was the tipping point for the CoG to become officially doctrinally Pentecostal. The point is indisputable, that the AG started out hundreds of times larger than the CoG though. They ought to still be hundreds of times larger than the CoG, if their system is so much better than the CoG system. My family is four generations deep in the AG, with several long-term AG pastors being very close relatives. I pastored in the AG for several years prior to transferring over to the CoG.
I can see your point & how you summarized that position but I feel one of the biggest reasons the CoG has stagnated is it’s geographical view. A front line pentecostal denomination in 2018 has to have already had a primary focus/goal for many years to plant churches nationwide …not just the S/E portion of America. We still don’t have that as our primary focus.We have a couple of new church plants happening west of the Rockies but we should already have a couple of church plants a week for decades happening west of the Rockies in order to be (in my opinion) relevant. Somebody asked one time in a thread, Is the CoG relevant anymore? My answer would be: ‘our relevance is limited!’Ask why Dr. Conrad Lowe was shown the door. We should have listened to his presentation, adapted & made crucial changes, forsook the old plans & we should have stepped into the 2,000’s with a goal to make church planting Plan ‘A’. Somebody said we’re going the way of K-Mart & I’m starting to look for the blue light special lol.Honestly there is no contest between the CoG & the A/G’s. My A/G friends tell me all the time how the CoG is heavy in preachers & singers while the #1 focus in Springfield is missions & missionaries.Out here in Calif. we have A/G’s that you would confuse with oneness churches (Riverdale, CA. A/G) & they have churches that you wonder why they didn’t join the Luthrans. It’s all over the place in terms of how they identify, but one thing they do have is community; they love each other & they back each other up.The CoG needs to just accept who they are as a Pentecostal Denomination & get focused nationally for church growth by using every opportunity to plant a new church & help get behind that church plant with all that we have. ________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!
I was in the COG for a long time and attended some of the General Assemblies. One of the things that is evident is that a leadership plan of for the future for structures and processes is not evident. Each year a spiritual plan is put forth for consideration, but that is about it. Dr Culpepper had a listening conference once. That was rare. Top leaders need to be able to lead the organization into the future. John Maxwell was hired to present leadership needs of the COG but its been posted here on Acts that his report was ignored by those who could do something to make it happen.
Can you explain to me what is the partnership of our mission?________________Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing …introducing people to Jesus!